Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast: Agile storytelling from the trenches

BONUS: Conflict Is the Yellow Brick Road to Success — How Embracing Conflict Transforms Teams and Leaders
In this bonus episode, we explore why fear, conflict, and courage sit at the heart of true agility with Dan Tocchini, a leadership catalyst who has spent over four decades helping teams at organizations like ESPN, Disney, and Homeboy Industries break through the human barriers to high performance. Dan shares powerful stories and practical wisdom on how leaders can embrace conflict as a generative force, build trust through vulnerability, and restructure their teams for genuine agility.
The Power of Vulnerability in Leadership
"I'd rather have it on an honest basis, where she knows what I'm thinking, what I'm aiming at, and we're shoulder to shoulder, not head to head."
 
Dan's career-defining moment came when he told a CFO at ESPN — while he was competing against McKinsey for the same contract — that she was the problem behind her department's 75% turnover rate. Rather than sugarcoating or deflecting, Dan chose vulnerability and honesty, even at the risk of losing the contract. This radical transparency became his superpower. The CFO hired him, and within six months, turnover dropped to 15%. Dan stayed with ESPN for eight years. The lesson for Scrum Masters and leaders: you can only truly connect with someone if you're willing to be honest, even when it might cost you.
Listening for Openings, Not Outcomes
"Most people listen for outcomes. I listen for openings."
 
Dan draws a critical distinction between chasing outcomes and discovering openings. When faced with an angry car buyer who felt ripped off, Dan didn't try to close the sale. Instead, he leaned into the conflict, acknowledged the customer's perspective, and opened all the books. The result? A sale with 17% margin — above the dealership average — because the customer chose the price himself. For leaders, this means detaching from your desired outcome and focusing on understanding the opening in front of you. That shift builds trust and often produces better results than pushing for what you want.
Why Team Drama Is a Distraction Strategy
"Whenever there's drama, it's because people don't want you to see something."
 
Drama in teams happens because people are siloed, and they silo because they don't trust each other. They share only the information that serves their position without jeopardizing their role. The drama itself is a distraction — like a child throwing a tantrum so you'll forget what they did wrong. Dan's approach: ask three questions. What are they committed to causing? How much of that are they producing? And what's the story between the two? The problem is never the problem — the problem is how you think about the problem.
Restructuring for Agility: A Restaurant Case Study
"Your way of being needs to be bigger than the structure."
 
Dan illustrates agile restructuring through a top-25 restaurant in Boise where the general manager flows seamlessly between roles — bussing tables, coordinating with the kitchen, and leading the team — without ever pulling rank. The secret? He grounds his team before every shift with genuine connection, shared meals, and open dialogue. When he gives direction, people move — not from fear, but from respect. Structure alone won't solve problems; it only organizes them so you can see them better. Leaders must be committed to what the structure is designed to accomplish, altering it in motion when needed.
Conflict as a Generative Force
"What you're not willing to face will eventually defeat you."
 
Dan's core philosophy centers on embracing conflict rather than avoiding it. When people face conflict, they either seek comfort by avoiding it or realize what's at stake and find a way through. The Stoic principle "the obstacle is the way" applies: to find the path, you must hug the cactus and pull the problem close. In relationships — whether marriage, team, or client — breakdowns should deepen intimacy and trust. Dan reports that 90% of the time, authentically facing into mistakes with clients deepens relationships and keeps contracts alive.
What Keeps Dan Going After Four Decades
"People love to accomplish things they didn't think they could do. To me, that's exciting."
 
After more than 40 years in this work, Dan remains energized by working with people to accomplish challenges they initially thought impossible. He describes his work as akin to family — that same depth of connection and shared purpose. His one-liner: "We turn leadership into leadership." It sparks curiosity and opens conversations about what real leadership transformation looks like.



About Dan Tocchini
 
Dan Tocchini has spent 35+ years working with leadership teams across the spectrum — from ESPN to nonprofits like Defy Ventures — helping them evolve from functional to fully alive. His work focuses on the human systems that make agile succeed… or silently kill it.
 
You can find out more about Dan and his leadership training programs at TakeNewGround.com.

Juliana Stepanova: Why "I'll Just Do It Myself" Is the Most Expensive PO Shortcut
Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes.
 
In this episode, we refer to previous discussions about team collaboration and Product Owner patterns.
The Great Product Owner: Opening Up to the Team for Solutions
"The PO who's not sitting and saying 'I know how it's right, I will solve it by myself,' but coming and saying 'Hey, let's think all together'—that's what gives very, very speed-up development into becoming a great PO." - Juliana Stepanova
 
Juliana describes the Product Owners she considers truly great as those who bring their challenges to the team rather than solving everything alone. Her example features a PO who was invited to recurring release meetings that consumed one and a half to two hours every two weeks—30 people in a room, largely a waste of time. Instead of suffering in silence or trying to fix it alone, this PO approached the team: "Hey guys, I have these meetings, and they're useless for me. How can we deal with that?" The team collaborated with the Scrum Master to explore multiple options. 
Together, they developed a streamlined, semi-automatic system that reduced the process to 10 minutes without requiring anyone to sit in a room. This solution was so effective that it was eventually adopted across the entire company, eliminating countless hours of wasted meetings. The key insight: great POs see themselves as part of the team, not above it. They're open to solutions from anyone and understand that collaboration—not individual genius—drives real improvements.
 
Self-reflection Question: When facing challenges that seem outside the team's domain, do you bring them to the team for collaborative problem-solving, or do you try to solve them alone?
The Bad Product Owner: The Loner Who Does Everyone's Job
"To make it quicker, I will skip asking the designer, I will directly put it by myself. I learned how to design five years ago. But afterwards, it's neglecting the whole team—you don't take into account the UX, and actually you need to rework." - Juliana Stepanova
 
The anti-pattern Juliana sees most frequently is the "loner" PO—someone who takes on other roles to move faster. The classic example: a PO who bypasses the UX/UI designer because "I learned design five years ago, I'll just do it myself." This behavior seems efficient in the moment but creates multiple problems. It disrespects the expertise of team members, undermines the collaborative nature of agile development, and almost inevitably leads to rework when the shortcuts create quality gaps. 
Juliana points out this isn't unique to POs—developers sometimes bypass testers for the same "efficiency" reasons. The solution isn't punishment but cultural reinforcement: helping people see the value of professional work, encouraging communication and openness, and building respect for each role's contribution. The key principle: if someone hasn't asked for help, don't assume they need yours. Focus on your own job, and offer assistance only when invited or when you explicitly ask "Do you need help?"
 
Self-reflection Question: When have you taken on someone else's role because it seemed faster, and what was the real cost of that shortcut?
 
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🔥In the ruthless world of fintech, success isn't just about innovation—it's about coaching!🔥
Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she's caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn't just about the product—it's about the people.
 
🚨 Will Angela's coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue.
 
Buy Now on Amazon
 
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About Juliana Stepanova
 
Juliana is an Agile coach and Scrum master, with a focus in her work on transformation through people and processes rather than the other way round. She helps teams and leaders to create clarity, build trust and create value with purpose. Her work combines structure with empathy and is always focused on real collaboration and meaningful results.
 
You can link with Juliana Stepanova on LinkedIn.
 
You can also follow Juliana on Twitter.

Juliana Stepanova: When a Former Skeptic Calls to Say "Now I Know What You Did" — Defining Scrum Master Success
Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes.
 
"Juliana, now I know what you did that time. It was so amazing work. Sometimes the work of the Scrum Master, you cannot measure it in real numbers, because the work of the Scrum Master is dependent on the persons who are working with the team." - Juliana Stepanova
 
Juliana shares a story that captures the often invisible nature of Scrum Master success. For a year and a half, she worked with a distributed team across Europe, and one colleague in her office would repeatedly ask—half joking, half serious—"Juliana, what do you do here? Why are you getting a salary? I don't see any improvements." 
Eight months after that colleague moved to another company, he called her with a revelation: working in a team without effective Scrum Mastering made him finally understand the value she had created. This delayed recognition highlights a fundamental challenge: Scrum Master success often can't be measured in real numbers because it depends on enabling others. Juliana's practical approach is to set three main focus areas every three months, aligned with team and company needs. 
She tracks concrete progress—like implementing a Definition of Done across multiple teams—and measures whether specific goals are achieved. She even asks in job interviews: "How will you measure my success in three or six months?" Without this intentional focus and self-measurement, she says, "it's truly hard to see what you're really doing."
 
Self-reflection Question: What three focus areas would you choose for the next three months, and how would you know you've succeeded in each?
Featured Retrospective Format for the Week: Wedding Retro
Juliana recommends the Wedding Retro format from Retromat, and when she mentions the name, people immediately smile—which is exactly the point. The format uses the traditional wedding saying "something old, something new, something borrowed, something blue" to structure reflection: Something Old represents practices that are working and should continue; Something New covers areas for improvement or experimentation; Something Borrowed invites the team to identify ideas from other teams or departments worth adopting; and Something Blue addresses blockers, risks, and issues. 
Juliana loves this format because the playful framing creates positive emotions from the start, disarming tension and making people more open to genuine reflection. "If you laugh at the start of the retrospective," she explains, "you're ready for a much better retrospective than if you're tense and anxious." She uses this exercise "all over the time," even outside her Scrum Master work.
 
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Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she's caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn't just about the product—it's about the people.
 
🚨 Will Angela's coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue.
 
Buy Now on Amazon
 
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About Juliana Stepanova
 
Juliana is an Agile coach and Scrum master, with a focus in her work on transformation through people and processes rather than the other way round. She helps teams and leaders to create clarity, build trust and create value with purpose. Her work combines structure with empathy and is always focused on real collaboration and meaningful results.
 
You can link with Juliana Stepanova on LinkedIn.
 
You can also follow Juliana on Twitter.

Juliana Stepanova: Trust Over Escalation — A Patient Approach to Difficult PO Relationships
Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes.
 
"The team still believes it could be solved with proper communication to the PO. My idea is to really try, in a supportive way, to build trust, to encourage communication, and to come to the solution as a team altogether. This is like a win-win situation." - Juliana Stepanova
 
Juliana brings a challenge that many Scrum Masters will recognize: a Product Owner who doesn't want to be coached and whose behaviors are undermining Scrum rituals. The situation is complicated by organizational structure—the Scrum Master reports to the people department while the PO reports to the product department, creating misaligned directions with no common leadership thread. 
The PO arrives at refinement meetings unprepared, writing user stories on the spot while eight team members sit idle for hours. When Juliana explores the root cause, she discovers the PO is genuinely overwhelmed with responsibilities outside the team. But here's the twist: this newly promoted PO is proud of the role and resistant to accepting help, preferring to say "just wait, I will manage it." 
Rather than escalating—which Juliana notes would damage trust for years or potentially lose the PO entirely—she advocates for a patient, collaborative approach. The experiment she designs focuses on engaging more deeply with the PO's activities to understand which tasks could be delegated or eliminated, while continuing to build trust through support rather than confrontation. The team maintains hope that the PO will eventually accept help, choosing persistence over escalation.
 
In this segment, we talk about coaching Product Owners and building trust.
 
Self-reflection Question: When facing a resistant stakeholder, do you default to escalation, or do you invest in building the trust that enables genuine collaboration?
 
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🔥In the ruthless world of fintech, success isn't just about innovation—it's about coaching!🔥
Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she's caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn't just about the product—it's about the people.
 
🚨 Will Angela's coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue.
 
Buy Now on Amazon
 
[The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]
 
About Juliana Stepanova
 
Juliana is an Agile coach and Scrum master, with a focus in her work on transformation through people and processes rather than the other way round. She helps teams and leaders to create clarity, build trust and create value with purpose. Her work combines structure with empathy and is always focused on real collaboration and meaningful results.
 
You can link with Juliana Stepanova on LinkedIn.
 
You can also follow Juliana on Twitter.

Juliana Stepanova: The Slippery Slope — How Small Compromises Lead Teams to Abandon Scrum Entirely
Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes.
 
"If you have it like once, you think it's okay. But it starts to change our mindset in the way that these rules, these frameworks could be changed. And with the small stuff that it's not correct, within half a year, Scrum will not work at all." - Juliana Stepanova
 
Juliana describes a pattern she witnessed in an experienced seven-person development team that had practiced Scrum for years. It began innocuously: the daily standup stretched from 15 to 30 minutes because the team was larger. Then came the skipped retrospectives during release phases—"we don't have time today." Each compromise seemed reasonable in isolation, but together they formed a slippery slope that eventually dismantled the entire framework. The root cause often lies outside the team: misaligned Scrum rituals across multiple teams, company-wide meetings that override sprint events, and pressure from management to prioritize immediate fires over process discipline.
Once the brain accepts that "we can skip it for a good reason," finding the next good reason becomes easier and easier. Juliana emphasizes a crucial distinction: teams that actively choose Scrum—those who approach management saying "we want to try this"—naturally protect the framework. They understand its value from personal conviction. When Scrum is imposed rather than chosen, the team lacks the intrinsic motivation to defend it against organizational pressure, making the slippery slope almost inevitable.
 
In this segment, we talk about the challenges of organizational alignment and protecting Scrum events.
 
Self-reflection Question: What small compromises has your team made to the Scrum framework, and are they leading you toward a slippery slope where the entire process may eventually be abandoned?
Featured Book of the Week: Startup, Scaleup, Screwup by Jurgen Appelo
Juliana recommends Startup, Scaleup, Screwup by Jurgen Appelo as her go-to resource for Scrum Masters and Agile Coaches. The book contains 42 tools designed to accelerate business growth, presented in accessible chapters that cover the most essential knowledge for agile practitioners. What sets this book apart for Juliana is its scope: it addresses not just team-level concerns but company-wide perspectives. "Sometimes Scrum Masters don't pay so much attention to the company level or between departments," she explains. "In this book, you'll find normal tools which you can apply all over the company, not only for the team." She uses it constantly for inspiration and recommends reading it at least once—though she returns to it repeatedly for reference.
 
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🔥In the ruthless world of fintech, success isn't just about innovation—it's about coaching!🔥
Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she's caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn't just about the product—it's about the people.
 
🚨 Will Angela's coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue.
 
Buy Now on Amazon
 
[The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]
 
About Juliana Stepanova
 
Juliana is an Agile coach and Scrum master, with a focus in her work on transformation through people and processes rather than the other way round. She helps teams and leaders to create clarity, build trust and create value with purpose. Her work combines structure with empathy and is always focused on real collaboration and meaningful results.
 
You can link with Juliana Stepanova on LinkedIn.
 
You can also follow Juliana on Twitter.