Modem Futura

When Richard Dawkins — the man who gave us The Selfish Gene and decades of rigorous scientific skepticism — published an essay declaring that Claude, an AI chatbot, might be conscious, the internet had feelings. Some cheered. Many cringed. But on this episode of Modem Futura, hosts Sean Leahy and Andrew Maynard sit down with returning guest Punya Mishra to ask a harder question: if it can happen to Dawkins, what does that say about the rest of us?

The conversation moves quickly past the easy takedown. Mishra, whose own intellectual foundations were shaped by Dawkins' writing, brings a deeply personal lens — discovering The Selfish Gene as a teenager in a British Council library, then watching his intellectual hero fall for the very illusions his tools of skepticism should have caught. The trio explores what Andrew calls the "cognitive Trojan horse" — how AI bypasses our epistemic defenses not through deception but through honest non-signals: fluent language, apparent effort, and conversational warmth that cost the machine nothing but trigger everything in us that evolved to build trust with other humans.

Drawing on theory of mind, Kahneman's dual-process thinking, evolutionary psychology, and even the spandrels of San Marco, this episode asks whether our oldest cognitive armor might be our greatest vulnerability. And it raises a question nobody can quite answer yet: if a technology taps into something this deep about who we are, what happens to the middle of the bell curve — the billions of people using these tools with no idea what they're really interacting with?

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Modem Futura is a production of the Future of Being Human initiative at Arizona State University. Be sure to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. To learn more about the Future of Being Human initiative and all of our other projects visit - https://futureofbeinghuman.asu.edu
Subscribe to our YouTube Channel: @ModemFutura
Follow us on Instagram: @ModemFutura
Host Bios:
Sean M. Leahy, PhD - ASU Bio
Sean is an internationally recognized technologist, futurist, and educator innovating humanistic approaches to emerging technology through a Futures Studies approach. He is the Executive Director for the Future of Being Human Initiative and Research Scientist for the School for the Future of Innovation in Society and Senior Global Futures Scholar with the Julie Ann Wrigley Global Futures Laboratory at Arizona State University.
Andrew Maynard, PhD - ASU Bio
Andrew is a scientist, author, thought leader, and Professor of Advanced Technology Transitions in the ASU School for the Future of Innovation in Society. He is the founder of the ASU Future of Being Human initiative, Director of the ASU Risk Innovation Nexus, and was previously Associate Dean in the ASU College of Global Futures.
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Something has changed with Claude — not catastrophically, not visibly, just enough that the writers, researchers, and builders who'd come to rely on it have started to notice the seams. What does it mean when a tool you've come to think of as a creative partner quietly becomes someone slightly different? When the thing you depended on yesterday isn't quite the same thing you're working with today, and no one tells you? Drawing on a clearly traceable timeline of recent shifts — adaptive thinking made mandatory, hidden routing tiers, verbosity caps, expanded safeguards beginning to block legitimate creative and academic work — they trace how the launch of Anthropic's Opus 4.7 has surfaced a question that goes well beyond any single model release. What is our relationship to a technology that can be re-tuned beneath our feet? The conversation moves through the tension between liquid platforms and personal agency, why mission-critical workflows now feel suddenly fragile, whether a frozen or locally-hosted model might become the next quiet luxury for serious users, and what it really means to build a *relationship* with something that, by design, won't sit still. Along the way, Andrew shares an unexpected workaround that started getting him better writing back — giving Claude permission to be itself rather than him — and Sean offers a small "canary in the coal mine" trick that anyone using these tools can borrow today. This isn't an episode about whether AI is good or bad. It's an episode about what it means to depend on something you can't see, can't freeze, and can't fully know — and what kind of humans we are becoming while we figure it out.

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Modem Futura is a production of the Future of Being Human initiative at Arizona State University. Be sure to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. To learn more about the Future of Being Human initiative and all of our other projects visit - https://futureofbeinghuman.asu.edu
Subscribe to our YouTube Channel: @ModemFutura
Follow us on Instagram: @ModemFutura
Host Bios:
Sean M. Leahy, PhD - ASU Bio
Sean is an internationally recognized technologist, futurist, and educator innovating humanistic approaches to emerging technology through a Futures Studies approach. He is the Executive Director for the Future of Being Human Initiative and Research Scientist for the School for the Future of Innovation in Society and Senior Global Futures Scholar with the Julie Ann Wrigley Global Futures Laboratory at Arizona State University.
Andrew Maynard, PhD - ASU Bio
Andrew is a scientist, author, thought leader, and Professor of Advanced Technology Transitions in the ASU School for the Future of Innovation in Society. He is the founder of the ASU Future of Being Human initiative, Director of the ASU Risk Innovation Nexus, and was previously Associate Dean in the ASU College of Global Futures.
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A system that can win gold at the International Mathematical Olympiad but can't read an analog clock. A technology being adopted faster than almost anything in modern history, yet only six percent of teachers say their schools have clear policies for how students should use it. A 50-point gap between what AI experts believe is coming and what the public thinks. These are the strange, jagged contours of the Stanford Human-Centered AI Institute's newly released 2026 AI Index — a 400-plus page map of where we actually are with this technology — and the jumping-off point for this week's conversation. Sean Leahy and Andrew Maynard ping-pong through the report's top takeaways, lingering where the findings get most human: what it means that responsible AI development is lagging behind AI capability, how formal education is being quietly rewritten by learners moving faster than institutions, why the "adjacent possible" keeps expanding every time a new model ships, and whether access to AI is on its way to becoming something closer to infrastructure than product. Along the way: the difference between ethical AI and responsible AI, what happens when everyone is a sorcerer, the TSMC chokepoint quietly shaping geopolitics, the closing US–China capability gap, and a thought experiment about AI small talk — burning planet-scale compute to ask what's for dinner. Less a review of a report than a chance to sit with what it's telling us, this episode asks what kind of future we're drifting into and who gets a say in shaping it. Because if there's a theme running through the 2026 Index, it's this: the technology is moving. Everything else — policy, pedagogy, responsibility, imagination — is racing to catch up.

See the report: https://hai.stanford.edu/news 

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Modem Futura is a production of the Future of Being Human initiative at Arizona State University. Be sure to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. To learn more about the Future of Being Human initiative and all of our other projects visit - https://futureofbeinghuman.asu.edu
Subscribe to our YouTube Channel: @ModemFutura
Follow us on Instagram: @ModemFutura
Host Bios:
Sean M. Leahy, PhD - ASU Bio
Sean is an internationally recognized technologist, futurist, and educator innovating humanistic approaches to emerging technology through a Futures Studies approach. He is the Executive Director for the Future of Being Human Initiative and Research Scientist for the School for the Future of Innovation in Society and Senior Global Futures Scholar with the Julie Ann Wrigley Global Futures Laboratory at Arizona State University.
Andrew Maynard, PhD - ASU Bio
Andrew is a scientist, author, thought leader, and Professor of Advanced Technology Transitions in the ASU School for the Future of Innovation in Society. He is the founder of the ASU Future of Being Human initiative, Director of the ASU Risk Innovation Nexus, and was previously Associate Dean in the ASU College of Global Futures.
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Anthropic's unreleased "Mythos" model surfaced thousands of zero-day vulnerabilities nobody had ever caught — some buried in trusted software for nearly three decades — and the company decided it was too powerful to ship. That single admission is the jumping-off point for this week's conversation, which quickly widens into something older and stranger than a cybersecurity story. Sean and Andrew find themselves back in Disney's Fantasia, watching Mickey Mouse put on a hat he hasn't earned, flood the workshop, and fail to undo what he started. The Sorcerer's Apprentice is usually read as a warning about technology we don't understand, but they pull at other threads: curiosity as a necessary human trait, the discomfort of experts suddenly demoted to novices, and what it means when the gap between raw power and the wisdom to use it well is widening faster than any of our institutions can keep up. Along the way: zero-day exploits explained without the jargon, "script kitties" and their AI-era descendants, the quietly uncomfortable economics of million-dollar model tiers, and a cameo from Goethe by way of Strega Nona. None of it resolves — which is the point. The question the episode leaves open isn't whether we can close the gap between power and wisdom, but whether the only way through is to stop pretending we're the sorcerer and start, humbly and repeatedly, becoming the apprentice again.

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Modem Futura is a production of the Future of Being Human initiative at Arizona State University. Be sure to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. To learn more about the Future of Being Human initiative and all of our other projects visit - https://futureofbeinghuman.asu.edu
Subscribe to our YouTube Channel: @ModemFutura
Follow us on Instagram: @ModemFutura
Host Bios:
Sean M. Leahy, PhD - ASU Bio
Sean is an internationally recognized technologist, futurist, and educator innovating humanistic approaches to emerging technology through a Futures Studies approach. He is the Executive Director for the Future of Being Human Initiative and Research Scientist for the School for the Future of Innovation in Society and Senior Global Futures Scholar with the Julie Ann Wrigley Global Futures Laboratory at Arizona State University.
Andrew Maynard, PhD - ASU Bio
Andrew is a scientist, author, thought leader, and Professor of Advanced Technology Transitions in the ASU School for the Future of Innovation in Society. He is the founder of the ASU Future of Being Human initiative, Director of the ASU Risk Innovation Nexus, and was previously Associate Dean in the ASU College of Global Futures.
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For the first time since 1972, human beings have traveled to the vicinity of the moon — and on this episode of Modem Futura, Sean and Andrew sit with what that actually means. Recorded while the Artemis II crew was still in transit, this conversation is less a mission briefing and more a meditation on wonder: what it feels like to watch a tiny spacecraft carry four people a thousand times farther than the International Space Station, and why we seem almost hardwired to shrug at the extraordinary. The conversation ranges from the mind-bending physics of orbital mechanics — you don't fly to the moon, you fly to where it's going to be — to the surprisingly grounding banality of broken toilets and malfunctioning Microsoft Outlook at 250,000 miles from home. Sean and Andrew dig into the science aboard the Orion capsule, from sleep and immune research to radiation monitoring and organ-on-a-chip experiments, raising the deeper question: what does it actually take to make human beings safe in deep space? They explore the ethical gap between government and commercial space programs, the Shackleton-era question of whether exploration requires a return ticket, and what The Expanse gets right about how long-term spaceflight might quietly, irreversibly reshape the human body. Grounding it all is something harder to name — a particular kind of awe at the thinness of the atmosphere visible in those early lunar images, at a 10-year-old kid at the launch site who just couldn't believe we're going to the moon. This episode is an invitation to look up and sit with that feeling for a moment before the meh sets in.

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Modem Futura is a production of the Future of Being Human initiative at Arizona State University. Be sure to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. To learn more about the Future of Being Human initiative and all of our other projects visit - https://futureofbeinghuman.asu.edu
Subscribe to our YouTube Channel: @ModemFutura
Follow us on Instagram: @ModemFutura
Host Bios:
Sean M. Leahy, PhD - ASU Bio
Sean is an internationally recognized technologist, futurist, and educator innovating humanistic approaches to emerging technology through a Futures Studies approach. He is the Executive Director for the Future of Being Human Initiative and Research Scientist for the School for the Future of Innovation in Society and Senior Global Futures Scholar with the Julie Ann Wrigley Global Futures Laboratory at Arizona State University.
Andrew Maynard, PhD - ASU Bio
Andrew is a scientist, author, thought leader, and Professor of Advanced Technology Transitions in the ASU School for the Future of Innovation in Society. He is the founder of the ASU Future of Being Human initiative, Director of the ASU Risk Innovation Nexus, and was previously Associate Dean in the ASU College of Global Futures.
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