The Westminster Tradition

• The Radical How: Why one big bet is government’s riskiest move

  What if the real problem in public service reform isn't what we're trying to do, but how we're trying to do it? Caroline, Danielle, and Alison dive deep into a revolutionary approach to government change by examining The Radical How – a framework published by UK innovation foundation Nesta.The conversation unpacks three core principles that could transform public service:start small and test assumptions early rather than pretending to know all answers upfront;build genuinely multidisciplinary teams instead of working in silos; andfocus relentlessly on outcomes for people rather than system outputs.Through concrete examples like COVID testing in the UK and reflections on infrastructure projects that changed course mid-development, we illuminate both the potential and challenges of this approach.But implementing this "radical how" faces significant barriers – from political imperatives that demand certainty to procurement systems that reward the wrong things.We grapple with tough questions about experimenting in people's lives, gaining social license for change, and communicating complex approaches in simple ways.We reflect on how federalism already offers a natural experiment in policy diversity across Australian jurisdictions, though we rarely harness its full potential.Referenced in the episodeNESTA The Radical HowThe radical 1960s schools experiment that created a whole new alphabet - and left thousands of children unable to spellRick Morton Smoking data taken down after link to vape banOur previous episode on Pink Batts and Robodebt - lessons not learnedThis podcast was recorded on Kaurna land, and we recognise Kaurna elders past and present. Always was, always will be. Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers....While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don’t guarantee that we’ve got all the details right.Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at [email protected] to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music. 'Til next time!

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• Tom Loosemore: behind the scenes of the Universal Credit Reset

  Tom Loosemore of Public Digital was instrumental in the capital R Reset of Universal Credit.In this interview, he tells Caroline there were no beanbags, but a lot of multi-D.This interview adds nuance and richness to the picture sketched in our previous Universal Credit episodes. Some of the key insights include:Fundamental problem of the original approach was thinking of Universal Credit as a technology challenge rather than a complex policy, operational, and design challengeThe first phase of system design suffered from incorrect data models, overly complex contracting arrangements, and thousands of untested assumptionsReset team created a small, multidisciplinary team, outside main DWP building to establish psychological safetyClear ministerial outcome statement ("more people in more work more of the time") provided crucial North StarTesting real service with 100 users through creative use of secondary legislation before wider rolloutRadical shift was to understand that the core feature of Universal Credit was how to cope with change of circumstances, not signing on or signing offSenior leaders like Neil Couling protected teams from political interference while maintaining ministerial accountabilityAdaptable culture allowed 9-10 policy/technology changes daily during COVID crisisDigital transformation requires outcomes focus, multidisciplinary teams, and continuous testing of assumptionsSystem proved sustainability by withstanding unprecedented change in both demand and policy over timeThis podcast was recorded on Kaurna land, and we recognise Kaurna elders past and present. Always was, always will be. Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers....While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don’t guarantee that we’ve got all the details right.Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at [email protected] to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music. 'Til next time!

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• Rescuing a bin fire: Test and Learn and Universal Credit (Part 2)

  In this second episode on Universal Credit, we talk about how the team transitioned from catastrophic failure to remarkable success.We cover:The barriers to test and learn - from the need for certainty by leaders, to Treasury requirements for business cases, to the need to support MinistersThe lessons learnt by the 10 year in role SRO Neil Couling [sorry CCB called you Neil Coulson!!] - including ‘avoid the tyranny of the timetable’Whether test and learn will be something younger generations find easier to manage than us Gen X-ersThe glory of farewell speeches, inspired by Iain Duncan-Smith’s resignation letter.Referenced in this episode:The Institute for Government’s event From disaster to completion?Andrew Solomon’s book Far from the TreeCover art is from Nesta’s The Radical How. This podcast was recorded on Kaurna land, and we recognise Kaurna elders past and present. Always was, always will be. Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers....While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don’t guarantee that we’ve got all the details right.Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at [email protected] to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music. 'Til next time!

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• From hot mess to delivered: Universal Credit and delivering system wide reform (Part 1)

  In the shadow of worries about the NDIS, do we even believe that big system reform in Australia is do-able any more? Is the juice worth the squeeze?In this first of a two part series, we explore the example of Universal Credit, a 15 year long reform agenda in the UK to combine 6 benefits into one, and, more importantly, seeking to transform the relationship of the citizen to work and welfare. In this episode we unpick how it goes from an idea that is incorporated into the UK Coalition Government’s priority list in 2010 to a £450m hot mess in 2013.We also look at the unusual (and brave) decision to keep going.Along the way, we cover:Whether radical transparency can be an answer to rescuing something when you’re in the middle of a hot mess?Whether we underestimate the importance of a ’holder of the vision’ in giant systems reform? Whether articulating a north star for reform is hard because it makes clear what you are prioritising, and, equally importantly, what you’re not?The laughable idea of low hanging fruitReferenced in the episode:Ed Milliband’s interview referencing PM Gordon Brown as an ideas factory, on Leading (The Rest is Politics)David Freud’s masterful memoir on his seminal role in Universal Credit, Clashing AgendasInstitute for Government has held a number of great events on this, including one in 2016 and another in 2025Abul Rizvi’s appearance on Joe Walker podcast on the origins of Australia’s immigration systemIntro grab is Lord David Freud from Institute for Government 2016 event, From disaster to recovery: Learning the lessons of Universal Credit Clashing Agendas.Outro grab is Tom Loosemore, former Deputy Director, Government Digital Services, from Institute for Government 2025 event, From disaster to completion? What Government can learn from the Universal Credit story? This podcast was recorded on Kaurna land, and we recognise Kaurna elders past and present. Always was, always will be. Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers....While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don’t guarantee that we’ve got all the details right.Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at [email protected] to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music. 'Til next time!

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• The Vanstone Files: Unpacking Ministerial Power

  In a wide ranging discussion, Alison, Caroline and Danielle come together to discuss the gems from the Amanda Vanstone interview, which examined how power, responsibility and decision-making played out at the top of government during her two decades as a federal minister.Vanstone's approach to being a minister - asking questions until understanding, visiting programs unannounced, and taking full responsibility for decisions - offers deep insights.We also canvas some less expected topics, including:Is it a boomer quality to use ALL CAPS in inconveniently located thank you notes?See the memoir of UK civil service head What Does Jeremy Think? by Suzanne HeywoodAre the best questions the ones asked by kindergarteners 'Who? What? Why?'See also Maria Katsonis LinkedIn post on The Art of Asking Smarter QuestionsAre people disinterested in history in policy making, or are we just pitching it wrong?See also Abul Rizvi on Immigration Policy on The Joe Walker Podcast Memoir of Pamela Churchill Harriman Kingmaker by Sonia PurnellWas Amanda Vanstone falling in to the classic 'good girl' trope of delivering savings, rather than posturing about plans to deliver savings?On why Australia struggles with a conversation about trade offs, see Judith Brett on How a Benthamite Political Culture Shaped Australia's Electoral System, on The Joe Walker PodcastWould we star in a documentary on tricky policy making? Or do we already have the essence of one in Utopia?This podcast was recorded on Kaurna land, and we recognise Kaurna elders past and present. Always was, always will be. Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers....While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don’t guarantee that we’ve got all the details right.Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at [email protected] to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music. 'Til next time!

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