Homebrewed Christianity

I am SO excited about this episode. I got to sit down with Rian Johnson to talk about Wake Up Dead Man: A Knives Out Mystery, and honestly? This might be my favorite conversation I’ve had all year. Not just because it’s a blast of a film (which it absolutely is), but because Rian brought so much theological depth and personal wrestling to this project. I’m always looking for that sweet spot where great storytelling meets profound questions about faith, power, community, and what it means to be human. This film? It’s the jackpot. I literally told Rian I now have an excuse to show a movie I genuinely enjoy in class and call it “movie day.” You can WATCH the conversation on YouTube The Film: Wake Up Dead Man: A Knives Out Mystery is now streaming on Netflix. Watch it. It’s spectacular. Rian Johnson is an acclaimed writer-director best known for creating the Knives Out mystery franchise, including Knives Out (2019), Glass Onion: A Knives Out Mystery (2022), and Wake Up Dead Man: A Knives Out Mystery (2025). His work is characterized by genre-bending storytelling that weaves together intricate plots with deep thematic exploration. Johnson’s other notable films include Brick (2005), a neo-noir set in a high school; Looper (2012), a science fiction thriller; and Star Wars: The Last Jedi (2017). He also directed several critically acclaimed episodes of Breaking Bad, including the Emmy-winning “Ozymandias.” Raised in the evangelical church, Johnson draws on his formative religious experiences to explore themes of grace, moral complexity, and the tension between reason and faith in his work. He cites influences ranging from G.K. Chesterton’s Father Brown mysteries to Carl Jung and Joseph Campbell’s work on storytelling and myth. Known for his meticulous approach to storytelling—he still writes his screenplays longhand in notebooks—Johnson creates films that function as both wildly entertaining genre exercises and thoughtful examinations of contemporary moral and social questions. ⁠Join us at Theology Beer Camp, October 8-10, in Kansas City!⁠⁠ ⁠UPCOMING ONLINE CLASS: The Rise of the Nones⁠ One-third of Americans now claim no religious affiliation. That's 100 million people.  But here's what most church leaders get wrong: they're not all the same. Some still believe in God. Some are actively searching. Some are quietly indifferent. Some think religion is harmful.  Ryan Burge & Tony Jones have conducted the first large-scale survey of American "Nones", which reveals 4 distinct categories—each requiring a different approach. Understanding the difference could transform everything from your ministry to your own spiritual quest. ⁠Get info & join the donation-based class (including 0) here.⁠ This podcast is a ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Homebrewed Christianity ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠production. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠the Homebrewed Christianity⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Theology Nerd Throwdown⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, & ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The Rise of Bonhoeffer⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ podcasts for more theological goodness for your earbuds. Join over 75,000 other people by joining our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Substack - Process This!⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Get instant access to over 50 classes at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.TheologyClass.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Follow the podcast, drop a review⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, send ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠feedback/questions⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ or become a ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠member of the HBC Community⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Look, we all have that person in our life who won’t stop talking about Motlmann or keeps “accidentally” bringing up liberation theology at Thanksgiving. Maybe that person is you. No judgment. I’m right there with you. That’s why I brought in my friend Rev. Dr. Thomas Hermans-Webster, acquisitions editor at Orbis Books, to help us figure out what books belong under the tree this year. We each picked 10 books that will make your theology nerd feel seen, challenged, and deeply grateful you know them so well. HERE’S THE GOOD NEWS: Orbis put the whole collection on sale. Use code ZESTY at checkout and get 30% off. The code is good through the 12 days of Christmas and all the way to Mardi Gras—we’re being liturgical about this. 🎁 Shop the full collection here You can WATCH the conversation on YouTube ⁠Join us at Theology Beer Camp, October 8-10, in Kansas City!⁠ UPCOMING ONLINE CLASS: The Rise of the Nones One-third of Americans now claim no religious affiliation. That's 100 million people.  But here's what most church leaders get wrong: they're not all the same. Some still believe in God. Some are actively searching. Some are quietly indifferent. Some think religion is harmful.  Ryan Burge & Tony Jones have conducted the first large-scale survey of American "Nones", which reveals 4 distinct categories—each requiring a different approach. Understanding the difference could transform everything from your ministry to your own spiritual quest. Get info & join the donation-based class (including 0) here. ⁠ ONLINE ADVENT CLASS w/ Diana Butler Bass⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Join us for a transformative four-week Advent journey exploring how the four gospels speak their own revolutionary word against empire—both in their ancient context under Roman occupation and for our contemporary world shaped by capitalism, militarism, and nationalism.  This course invites you into an alternative calendar and rhythm. We'll discover how these ancient texts of resistance offer wisdom for our own moment of political turmoil, economic inequality, and ecological crisis. This class is donation-based, including 0. You can sign-up at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.HomebrewedClasses.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ This podcast is a ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Homebrewed Christianity ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠production. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠the Homebrewed Christianity⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Theology Nerd Throwdown⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, & ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The Rise of Bonhoeffer⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ podcasts for more theological goodness for your earbuds. Join over 75,000 other people by joining our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Substack - Process This!⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Get instant access to over 50 classes at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.TheologyClass.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Follow the podcast, drop a review⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, send ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠feedback/questions⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ or become a ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠member of the HBC Community⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

So here's what we're wrestling with in this episode: What if economics isn't just a topic theology comments on, but actually the bigger framework that shapes what's theologically possible? That's the question that sent Brian McLaren searching, and it's what led him—and us—to the Japanese philosopher Kojin Karatani and his game-changing framework about modes of exchange laid out in his book, The Structure of World History We're talking about how nation, state, and capital work together as these integrated energies, and how if you try to critique just one without seeing the others, you end up reproducing the very thing you're trying to escape. The biblical narrative becomes this fascinating case study—starting with naked hunter-gatherers in a garden with no religion, state, or market, and ending with the New Jerusalem coming down with no need for a temple. And maybe, just maybe, understanding these modes of exchange—the symbolic, the coercive, the economic—helps us see what kind of future we're actually moving toward. It's the kind of conversation that makes you realize the church's learned ignorance about economics might be the source of its greatest spiritual crisis, and you know what? That's worth paying attention to. You can WATCH the conversation on YouTube You can find the YouTube playlist of videos outlining Karatani’s work here. Joining me for this conversation is... Guillermo Bervejillo is an economic geographer and community organizer who bridges critical theory and social movement practice. If you missed our previous conversation, where we introduced Karatani’s work check it out - Kojin Karatani’s The Structure of World History. Brian D. McLaren is an author, speaker, activist, and public theologian. Don’t miss his AMAZING new book, The Last Voyage.  Dawson Allen is the movement manager at the Center for Action & Contemplation.  Join us at Theology Beer Camp, October 8-10, in Kansas City! ONLINE ADVENT CLASS w/ Diana Butler Bass⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Join us for a transformative four-week Advent journey exploring how the four gospels speak their own revolutionary word against empire—both in their ancient context under Roman occupation and for our contemporary world shaped by capitalism, militarism, and nationalism.  This course invites you into an alternative calendar and rhythm. We'll discover how these ancient texts of resistance offer wisdom for our own moment of political turmoil, economic inequality, and ecological crisis. This class is donation-based, including 0. You can sign-up at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.HomebrewedClasses.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ This podcast is a ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Homebrewed Christianity ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠production. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠the Homebrewed Christianity⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Theology Nerd Throwdown⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, & ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The Rise of Bonhoeffer⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ podcasts for more theological goodness for your earbuds. Join over 75,000 other people by joining our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Substack - Process This!⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Get instant access to over 50 classes at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.TheologyClass.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Follow the podcast, drop a review⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, send ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠feedback/questions⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ or become a ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠member of the HBC Community⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What is up, Theology Nerds! This one's a banger. At Theology Beer Camp 2025, I got to sit down with an EPIC braintrust of Bonhoeffer scholars—Jeff Pugh, Lori Brandt Hale, Reggie Williams, and Andy Root—for a panel that went deep into Dietrich's life, his communities, and why his witness matters more now than ever. We wrestled with how Bonhoeffer's critique of stupidity as a sociological force, his understanding of Christ as the center that opens us to the other, and his call to prayer and righteous action speak directly into our current moment of rising nationalism and the masquerade of evil. These scholars didn't flinch from the hard questions: What do we do when the church has failed? How do we resist without contempt? And what does a faithful community look like when you might be hiding people in your house? If this conversation lights a fire in your theological belly, then you need to be with us at Theology Beer Camp 2026—October 8-10th in Kansas City. Head over here and grab those pre-sale tickets. This is what we do: beer, community, and theology that matters. Come join us. You can WATCH the conversation on YouTube ONLINE ADVENT CLASS w/ Diana Butler Bass⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Join us for a transformative four-week Advent journey exploring how the four gospels speak their own revolutionary word against empire—both in their ancient context under Roman occupation and for our contemporary world shaped by capitalism, militarism, and nationalism.  This course invites you into an alternative calendar and rhythm. We'll discover how these ancient texts of resistance offer wisdom for our own moment of political turmoil, economic inequality, and ecological crisis. This class is donation-based, including 0. You can sign-up at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.HomebrewedClasses.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ This podcast is a ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Homebrewed Christianity ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠production. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠the Homebrewed Christianity⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Theology Nerd Throwdown⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, & ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The Rise of Bonhoeffer⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ podcasts for more theological goodness for your earbuds. Join over 75,000 other people by joining our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Substack - Process This!⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Get instant access to over 50 classes at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.TheologyClass.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Follow the podcast, drop a review⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, send ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠feedback/questions⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ or become a ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠member of the HBC Community⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Well, we kicked off our Advent Against Empire series with Diana Butler Bass diving deep into Matthew's birth narrative, and wow—it did not disappoint. Diana brought her three signature lenses (anti-imperialism, non-violence, and eco-wholeness) to the most Jewish of all the gospels, and things got delightfully nerdy. We explored how Matthew's genealogy isn't just a boring list of "begats"—it's a subversive royal document packed with scandalous women and outsiders that announces Jesus as the true king in direct confrontation with Rome and Herod. Diana walked us through a brilliant two-act structure: Act One is all about the birth of Wisdom and Joseph (a dreamer who winds up in Egypt—sound familiar?) receiving divine announcements. Act Two gives us the Apocalyptic clash between the World as it is and the World to come, with the Magi's cosmic rebellion against Herod, the horrific violence that follows when the empire doesn't get its way, and the holy family's return. We also geeked out on Jesus as the embodiment of Sophia—Wisdom incarnate—and how Matthew's five-discourse structure mirrors the Torah itself. If you've always thought of Matthew as the "Christmas pageant gospel," prepare to have your assumptions lovingly dismantled. Want to go deeper? Join Diana and me for our full four-week Advent journey, The Beginning of Another World: Advent Against Empire. Each week we're letting a different gospel speak its revolutionary word—no harmonizing, no smoothing over the rough edges. The class is fully asynchronous so that you can participate on your own schedule or join us live for our recordings. Sign up HERE and contribute whatever you can (including 0). Come get nerdy with us! You can WATCH the conversation on YouTube here Diana Butler Bass, Ph.D., is an award-winning author, popular speaker, inspiring preacher, and one of America’s most trusted commentators on religion and contemporary spirituality. Previous Episodes with Diana & Tripp How the Lectionary Kept Me Christian: Diana Butler Bass on Practicing the Year Two Books, One Night: Finding Beauty in What We Can’t Control Religious Liberty & Violence – Unpacking the First 100 Days of Trump 2.0 The Interlocking Crises of Religion & Democracy Faith in a Toxic Public Square The Resurrection of Jesus 2024: The Sequel The Christology Ladder ONLINE ADVENT CLASS w/ Diana Butler Bass⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Join us for a transformative four-week Advent journey exploring how the four gospels speak their own revolutionary word against empire—both in their ancient context under Roman occupation and for our contemporary world shaped by capitalism, militarism, and nationalism.  This course invites you into an alternative calendar and rhythm. We'll discover how these ancient texts of resistance offer wisdom for our own moment of political turmoil, economic inequality, and ecological crisis. This class is donation-based, including 0. You can sign-up at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.HomebrewedClasses.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ This podcast is a ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Homebrewed Christianity ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠production. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠the Homebrewed Christianity⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Theology Nerd Throwdown⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, & ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The Rise of Bonhoeffer⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ podcasts for more theological goodness for your earbuds. Join over 75,000 other people by joining our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Substack - Process This!⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Get instant access to over 50 classes at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.TheologyClass.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Follow the podcast, drop a review⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, send ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠feedback/questions⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ or become a ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠member of the HBC Community⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices