Haystacks & Hell

Support the Show • This re-upload of Abby and Ami's original show SDAP dives into the complex and often contradictory relationship between music and the Seventh-day Adventist faith. Abby, Ami, Alex, and friends talk about their experiences with church music, worldly music, hypocrisy, destroying CDs, and just plain weirdness.
00:00 Story Previews 
00:27 Haystacks and Hell Intro 
00:44 Episode Intro 
01:33 Abby, Ami, and Alex on Music 
07:17 Adventist Attitudes on Music 
15:15 "Christian Rock" 
19:56 Church vs. Academy 
28:06 Destroying CDs 
30:16 Music Taste and Hypocrisy 
46:43 Dorms and Music Contraband 
53:19 Guest Stories 
58:50 Outro
Full Transcripts, resources and more: hell.bio/notes 
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Credits: Abby and Ami, creators of the Seventh-day Atheist Podcast (https://hell.bio/sdap) • Music: Hall of the Mountain King Kevin MacLeod (https://incompetech.com/) • Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License

Support the Show • Did you ever get scolded for the music you played in church? We're diving into traditional Seventh-day Adventist attitudes toward music and talking about my own personal experience with music while growing up in the church. We'll also cover historical Protestant views on organs, early Adventist resistance to musical instruments, and the silly debate around Christian Contemporary Music.
-Santiago
Sources:
SDAs didn't use instruments for first 3 decades
First documented use of an organ in 1877
E.J. Waggoner "Solo singing has no rightful place..."
Ira Sankey hymns called the "devil's tunes"
Alma Blackmon quote re: White elitist professors
Who is Heinrich Schenker and why should you care?
Music Theory and the White Racial Frame
Music Theory and White Supremacy
Jacob Aranza Interview
Rock Is Dead, Thank God
IFPI 2023 Global Music Report
Spotify Top Trends of 2023
Who killed the CCM industry?
SDA propaganda given to me:
10 SHOCKING "FACTS" (BS) About CCM
Inside Rock Music by Vance Ferrell
Ted Wilson Facebook Post
Seventh-day Adventist Philosophy of Music
Recommended reading:
The Devil’s Music - How Christians Inspired, Condemned, and Embraced Rock ’n’ Roll
00:00 Intro
00:16 My Background with Music
06:28 Local Cultures Define Worship Styles
07:47 Protestants Hated the Organ?
10:21 Early Adventists Didn't Use Instruments
15:18 Racist Attitudes
17:58 Music Theory in the US
19:31 Rock and CCM
21:17 Anti-CCM SDA YouTuber
24:50 Inside Rock Music
28:02 Jacob Aranza, Satanic Panic Provocateur
34:18 Recap and Outro
Full Transcripts, resources and more: hell.bio/notes 
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Have a story to share? Write to us, send a DM or voice message on Instagram, or leave a voicemail at (301) 750-8648‬. We take your privacy seriously: Privacy Policy 
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Twitter • TikTok • Instagram • YouTube • Facebook • r/exAdventist 
—
Credits: Music: Hall of the Mountain King Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) • Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License

Support the Show • Santiago discusses the current political climate, especially the continued rise of Christian Nationalism in the United States, while reflecting on his personal journey from right-wing authoritarian beliefs to greater empathy and understanding. Listeners are encouraged to stay informed, participate in local elections, maintain hope for justice and positive change.
 
Resources / Topics Mentioned:
Reddit Post - "My dad woke my fears" 
Blog Post - Trump in office Ten Days: the Seventh-day Adventist Church wrote "Keep your mouth shut" 
Book - Armageddon by Bart Ehrman 
Video - Data Over Dogma Interview with Bart Ehrman 
Video - Skeptic.com Interview with Bart Ehrman 
Podcast - Sunday School Dropouts 
PDF - Ben Carson's Project 2025 Contribution 
Video - Don't Believe Him - Ezra Klein
Independent Media Suggestions:
DemocracyNow.org / YouTube 
Colonial Outcasts Podcast 
Drop Site News 
Breaking Points 
Legal Eagle - WTF is DOGE? 
Last Week Tonight 
Adam Conover 
More Perfect Union
00:00 Intro and Season 3 Kickoff
01:07 Political Climate and Deconstruction
03:48 Personal Journey and Reflections
06:11 Anxiety and End Times
11:14 Christian Nationalism
26:38 Encouragement and Resources
 
Full Transcripts, resources and more: hell.bio/notes
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Have a story to share? Write to us, send a DM or voice message on Instagram, or leave a voicemail at (301) 750-8648‬. We take your privacy seriously: Privacy Policy 
— 
Twitter • TikTok • Instagram • YouTube • Facebook 
— 
Credits: Music: Hall of the Mountain King Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) • Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License

Support the Show • Part 2 of Santiago's interview with Dee. We discussed his questioning of Adventism and Christianity in general, Satanic Panic, his evolving perspectives on religion, and having empathy for believers. We also talked about Dee's move to Sweden, his childhood connection to Dr. Ben Carson, and how the Ben Carson on TV is not the same man Dee once knew.
Resources / Topics Mentioned: 
Song - I'm Afraid I'll Go to Heaven by Moon Walker 
Book - Inside Rock Music (SDA anti-rock propaganda) 
Artist - Erykah Badu 
Video - Erykah Badu NPR Tiny Desk Concert 
Article - Dr. Ben Carson 
Video - Carson 1997 National Prayer Breakfast Speech @ 34:53 
Video - Carson 2013 National Prayer Breakfast Speech @ 34:10
00:00 Intro 
01:05 Part 2 of Dee's Story 
02:34 The Historical Jesus 
04:42 Personal Tragedy and Realizations 
07:34 Why Do People Leave? 
13:47 Empathy for Believers 
21:41 Segregated Conferences 
26:17 Sweden, Racism, and CRT 
32:58 Music and Satanic Panic 
44:00 Dr. Ben Carson 
49:39 Moving to Sweden 
54:02 Ethics and Adventism 
1:05:37 Closing Thoughts
 
Full Transcripts, resources and more: hell.bio/notes 
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Have a story to share? Write to us, send a DM or voice message on Instagram, or leave a voicemail at (301) 750-8648‬. We take your privacy seriously: Privacy Policy 
— 
Twitter • TikTok • Instagram • YouTube • Facebook 
— 
Credits: Music: Hall of the Mountain King Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) • Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License

Support the Show • Part 1 of Santiago's interview with Dee, a fourth-generation Seventh-day Adventist, about his SDA background, early baptism, education, and what led him out of the church. In our wide-ranging conversation, we discussed racial issues in Adventist schools, the Civil Rights Movement, and more.
Resources / Topics Mentioned: 
Video - We Are the World 
Topic - Public Enemy 
Film - Malcolm X (1992) 
Topic - Assassination of MLK Jr. 
Topic - Poor People's Campaign 
Topic - The 15 Year Battle for MLK Jr Day 
Video - MLK: "A riot is the language of the unheard" 
Topic - White Americans Celebrated MLK's Death 
Topic - Ronald Reagan's wartime lies
 
00:00 Intro
00:17 Meet Dee: 4th Gen Adventist
02:49 Early Memories & Fearing Ellen White
04:01 Questioning Church Teachings
09:02 A Life-Changing Tragedy
11:04 Living with Fear & Moving to Huntsville
19:01 Baptism and Religious Pressure
22:26 Purity Culture & Mixed Messages
28:51 Weird "Health Message" Fads
31:29 Racial Issues in Adventist Schools
38:11 Civil Rights, Division, MLK
43:30 Deconstructing Beliefs
47:02 How Othering Manipulates Us
53:07 The New Generation
55:29 Trickle Down Greedonomics
1:00:42 Dee's Adventist Education
1:07:16 Goodbye Oakwood, Hello Adulthood
1:11:26 Outro
Full Transcripts, resources and more: hell.bio/notes 
— 
Have a story to share? Write to us, send a DM or voice message on Instagram, or leave a voicemail at (301) 750-8648‬. We take your privacy seriously: Privacy Policy 
—
Twitter • TikTok • Instagram • YouTube • Facebook 
— 
Credits: Music: Hall of the Mountain King Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) • Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License