Leading Saints Podcast

JeaNette Smith is a licensed Marriage and Family Therapist who authored Side by Side: Supporting a Spouse in Church Service to help couples keep their relationships strong and connected amidst demanding Church callings or busy careers. Her inspiration for the book came early in her career while her husband, Bret, was serving as a bishop, leading her to study how couples can actively grow closer rather than drift apart during intense seasons of service.

Over their years together, JeaNette and Bret have put these principles into practice across numerous callings, including three bishoprics, a branch presidency, a stake presidency, and as mission leaders in the Dominican Republic. JeaNette is a frequent contributor to Meridian Magazine and the author of two books on adolescent romance. JeaNette and Bret are the parents of four children and the grandparents of fifteen. They continue to work side by side in their family life and with their grandchildren.



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Side by Side: Supporting a Spouse in Church Service

Watch the video and share your thoughts in the Zion Lab community

Transcript available with the video in the Zion Lab community

Highlights

JeaNette explores how couples can navigate demanding Church callings without straining their relationship. Drawing on her personal background supporting her husband across various leadership roles and her professional expertise, JeaNette emphasizes that Church callings should be treated as shared, couple-centered opportunities that strengthen marriages rather than burden them.

Key Insights

Viewing Callings as a Team Effort: Demanding leadership positions run much smoother and foster deeper connection when couples view the assignment as a joint effort, with the leader using their spouse as a trusted sounding board and counselor.

Navigating Confidentiality Wisely: Leaders should refrain from complete emotional isolation; while specific names and details must remain private, sharing emotional burdens, general concerns, and spiritual joys keeps the couple connected and avoids emotional drift.

Emotional Availability Matters Most: Marital tension rarely stems from physical absence alone; it arises when leaders become emotionally disengaged and fail to share their inner thoughts and feelings with their spouse.

Prioritizing Intentional Connection: Daily practices—such as morning companionship scripture study, short check-ins, or casual dates—help maintain alignment and ensure open channels of communication.

Maintaining Appropriate Motives and Boundaries: Spouses must approach confidential insights with pure motives aimed at lifting burdens rather than satisfying curiosity, while leaders must genuinely value their spouse’s wisdom as an equal partner.

Prioritizing Personal Self-Care: Spouses and leaders alike must prioritize self-care and personal well-being to avoid resentment and build the capacity needed to serve others effectively.

Leadership Applications

Integrate Daily Companionship Study: Leaders can establish a daily routine with their spouse to study scriptures, pray, and discuss upcoming ward or stake needs together to invite shared revelation.

Share the Emotional Weight Without Oversharing: Leaders can share their personal feelings, fatigue, or spiritual insights with their spouse to process stress safely without revealing confidential names or specific details.

Involve Your Spouse in Leadership Activities: Where appropriate, leaders can invite their spouses to attend youth activities, missionary setting-aparts, or stake events together to make service a fun, shared experience.

00:02:00 – Jeanette’s Background

Jeanette shares her personal experiences as a bishop’s wife and her professional background as a marriage and family therapist.

00:04:30 – Navigating Marriage and Church Callings

Discussion on how church callings can strain relationships and the importance of turning these challenges into opportunities for growth.

00:07:00 – The Importance of Communication

Exploration of the need for open communication between spouses regarding church responsibilities and the emotional burdens they carry.

00:09:30 – Confidentiality and Trust

Jeanette emphasizes the balance between confidentiality in church leadership and the necessity of sharing feelings and experiences with one’s spouse.

00:12:00 – Shared Experiences in Leadership

The significance of couples working together in church callings and how it strengthens their relationship.

00:15:00 – Companionship Study

Jeanette discusses the practice of companionship study and its benefits for couples in leadership roles.

00:18:00 – Advice for Newly Called Couples

Tips for couples newly called to leadership positions on how to navigate their responsibilities together.

00:21:00 – Maintaining Trustworthiness

The importance of being a trustworthy spouse and the need to keep confidences regarding ward matters.

00:23:30 – Friendship Dynamics

Discussion on the shift in relationships for bishop’s wives and the importance of maintaining friendships outside of church.

00:26:00 – Self-Care for Spouses

Jeanette highlights the necessity of self-care for spouses in leadership to better support their partners.

00:29:00 – Emotional Availability

Exploration of the difference between physical presence and emotional availability in a marriage.

00:32:00 – Navigating Different Experiences

The challenges of reconnecting after church meetings and the importance of sharing spiritual experiences with one another.

00:35:00 – Handling Difficult Situations

Jeanette shares a personal story about navigating sensitive situations while maintaining a strong marriage.

00:38:00 – Date Night and Connection

The role of date nights in fostering connection and communication between spouses.

00:40:00 – Pure Motives in Communication

The importance of having pure motives when discussing church matters and supporting each other.

00:43:00 – Seeking Help and Humility

Encouragement for leaders to seek help when needed and to be humble about their struggles.

00:45:00 – Avoiding Judgment

The need for spouses to refrain from forming judgments about others in the ward and the importance of compassion.

The award-winning Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints’ mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Find Leadership Tools, Courses, and Community for Latter-day Saint leaders in the Zion Lab community. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org.

Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Benjamin Hardy, Elder Alvin F. Meredith III, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Bonnie Oscarson, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Kirby Heyborne, Taysom Hill, Coaches Jennifer Rockwood and Brandon Doman, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson, Ryan Gottfredson, Greg McKeown, Ganel-Lyn Condie, Michael Goodman, Wendy Ulrich, Richard Ostler, and many more in over 800 episodes.

Discover podcasts, articles, virtual conferences, and live events related to callings such as the bishopric, Relief Society, elders quorum, Primary, youth leadership, stake leadership, ward mission, ward council, young adults, ministering, and teaching.

Register for the Meetings with Saints Virtual Summit: https://app.leadingsaints.org/mws-reg

Tesiah “Tess” Frame is a Latter-day Saint digital content creator, author, and podcaster based in Southern California. Focusing on motherhood, practical scripture study, and active discipleship, she aims to bring optimism, authenticity, and joy to the online conversation surrounding Latter-day Saint women. Alongside Becky Squire, she co-hosts the Certain Women Podcast, a Come, Follow Me scripture study program specifically geared toward women, and is the co-owner of the children’s faith brand Happy Sacrament.

Outside of her media work, Tess is a mother of three boys and a resilient survivor of a highly traumatic medical crisis during late pregnancy, during which she was placed in a temporary medical coma to safely deliver her youngest son. Utilizing her platforms and personal experiences, she actively encourages Church members to lean into personal initiative, love the gospel, and fearlessly minister on a local scale.



Links

TesiahFrame.com

Certain Women Podcast @certainwomenpodcast

HappySacrament.com

Instagram @tesiahframe

Watch the video and share your thoughts in the Zion Lab community

Transcript available with the video in the Zion Lab community

Highlights

Tess Frame talks about the female experience in the Church and the proactive role of covenant discipleship. The conversation centers on navigating local leadership dynamics, finding purpose outside of official callings, and historical and scriptural frameworks for the Relief Society.

00:04:08 – Tess Frame’s Journey and Unique Birth Experience

00:07:00 – Finding Purpose and Taking Initiative in the Church

00:10:01 – The Libertarian Approach to Church Programs

00:12:34 – Women’s Experience in Church Leadership

00:14:18 – Advice for Relief Society Leaders

00:16:33 – Empowering Women Beyond Official Roles

00:17:30 – Lessons from Women in the Scriptures

00:19:07 – Studying Women in the Scriptures

00:25:25 – Continuity Among Women in the Scriptures

00:27:56 – The Role of Women in the Relief Society

00:30:01 – Navigating Social Media as a Woman

00:35:46 – Understanding the Addictive Nature of Social Media

00:39:42 – The Historical Context of the Relief Society

00:44:29 – The Essential Role of Women in God’s Kingdom

Key Insights

Proactive Discipleship: Members should not wait for system-wide institutional changes or official permissions to address local ward needs; recognizing a need is often a spiritual prompting to act.

Avoiding Local Hierarchies: Over-regulation by local leadership can accidentally create organizational barriers that prevent auxiliary leaders from fully acting within their stewardships.

The Spirit of Relief Society: The true, foundational purpose of the Relief Society is providing local, practical relief and ministering rather than just organizing social activities.

Scriptural Continuity: Studying scriptural women—such as Ruth, Rahab, Sarah, and Hannah—reveals flawed but profoundly faithful individuals whose inter-generational commitments parallel modern sisterhood.

Mindful Social Media Use: Platforms use algorithms designed to trigger primitive emotional responses like anger and comparison; creators and consumers must intentionally cultivate self-awareness to remain peacemakers online.

Supporting Male Experiences: Ward groups must also remain attentive to the emotional, mental health, and connection needs of men, as structural shifts and heavy callings can leave them feeling disconnected.

Leadership Applications

Encourage Autonomous Ministering: Bishops can empower Relief Society presidencies by explicitly clarifying which matters require priesthood approval and which allow them to act independently to provide immediate community relief.

Foster Local Adjustments: Ward leaders can prioritize home-centered gatherings or small-group rotations to break down ward cliques without requiring formal budgets or institutional approval.

The award-winning Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints’ mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Find Leadership Tools, Courses, and Community for Latter-day Saint leaders in the Zion Lab community. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org.

Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Benjamin Hardy, Elder Alvin F. Meredith III, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Bonnie Oscarson, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Kirby Heyborne, Taysom Hill, Coaches Jennifer Rockwood and Brandon Doman, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson, Ryan Gottfredson, Greg McKeown, Ganel-Lyn Condie, Michael Goodman, Wendy Ulrich, Richard Ostler, and many more in over 800 episodes.

Discover podcasts, articles, virtual conferences, and live events related to callings such as the bishopric, Relief Society, elders quorum, Primary, youth leadership, stake leadership, ward mission, ward council, young adults, ministering, and teaching.

For over thirty years, Shawn D. Moon has worked with global clients ranging from Fortune 500 companies to government organizations. He currently serves as Chairman and CEO of Zerorez. Previously, Shawn was an Executive Vice President at FranklinCovey, a former principal at Mellon Financial Corporation, and was named a 2024 finalist for Ernst & Young Entrepreneur of the Year.

A Wall Street Journal best-selling author, Shawn has published books in multiple languages and frequently speaks to senior leadership audiences globally. His most current book is Roots, Relationships, and Results. He serves on multiple boards, is actively engaged in his community, and currently serves as a married adult stake president in Provo, Utah. Shawn and his wife, Michele, reside in Lindon, Utah, and have four children and 11 grandchildren.



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Roots, Relationships, and Results

What the Scriptures Say About Leadership | An Interview with Shawn Moon

Watch the video and share your thoughts in the Zion Lab community

Transcript available with the video in the Zion Lab community

Highlights

This discussion covers foundational leadership attributes compiled from over one hundred interviews with global leaders across various industries. The conversation focuses on intentional personal development, effective relational dynamics, and achieving meaningful outcomes in family and church callings.

00:03:12 – Sean’s Leadership Background

00:05:00 – Unique Stake Presidency Experience

00:05:57 – Genesis of the New Book

00:08:06 – The Concept of the Last Leadership Lecture

00:12:49 – Interviewing Leaders for Insights

00:14:40 – Themes Emerging from Interviews

00:16:14 – The Importance of Personal Leadership

00:19:05 – Leading Without a Formal Title

00:21:19 – The Power of Gratitude in Leadership

00:29:15 – Practicing Gratitude as a Skill

00:32:05 – The Work That Matters

00:35:10 – Trusting Leadership: Extending Trust

00:40:59 – The Impact of Believing in Others

00:43:24 – Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Key Insights

The Leadership Arc: True leadership functions across three integrated categories: establishing internal roots of personal leadership, building deep relational trust, and executing to achieve sustainable results.

Leading Without a Title: Formal authority is not a prerequisite for impact; some of the most profound leadership occurs when individuals step forward to influence and lift others without holding an official calling or position.

Emotional Regulation: Effective leaders act as thermostats rather than thermometers. They actively set the emotional temperature and bring stability to a room during high-stress situations instead of merely reacting to the environment.

Gratitude as a Multiplier: Practicing deliberate gratitude serves as a cognitive interrupter that shifts a leader’s mindset from defensive, reactionary conflict to collaborative, executive problem-solving.

Extending Trust: While being trustworthy is a basic requirement, exceptional leadership requires actively extending trust to others, which fosters their potential and builds long-term confidence.

Intentional Time Investment: Human life consists of a finite number of seconds. Leaders must prioritize their weekly focus around essential tasks and specific individuals to build deep, lasting connections.

Leadership Applications

Implementing the 5×4 Method: Latter-day Saint leaders can organize their weekly schedules by identifying five critical objectives and four specific people to intentionally reach out to and lift up.

Expressing Written Appreciation: Ward and stake leaders can cultivate a supportive culture by sending regular, handwritten notes of gratitude to members, validating their voluntary service and building deep organizational trust.

The award-winning Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints’ mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Find Leadership Tools, Courses, and Community for Latter-day Saint leaders in the Zion Lab community. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org.

Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Benjamin Hardy, Elder Alvin F. Meredith III, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Bonnie Oscarson, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Kirby Heyborne, Taysom Hill, Coaches Jennifer Rockwood and Brandon Doman, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson, Ryan Gottfredson, Greg McKeown, Ganel-Lyn Condie, Michael Goodman, Wendy Ulrich, Richard Ostler, and many more in over 800 episodes.

Discover podcasts, articles, virtual conferences, and live events related to callings such as the bishopric, Relief Society, elders quorum, Primary, youth leadership, stake leadership, ward mission, ward council, young adults, ministering, and teaching.

In this “Zion Lab Live” episode, Kurt Francom facilitates a live community discussion analyzing recent topics in Zion Lab. The conversation focuses on improving the Sunday meeting experience, addressing the unique cultural and social needs of men in the church, and managing the mental capacity of local leaders.



Watch the video and share your thoughts in the Zion Lab community

Transcript available with the video in the Zion Lab community

Highlights

Key Insights

US Constitution Fifth Sunday Lessons: Community feedback regarding the church-mandated Fifth Sunday lessons was generally positive, highlighting a respectful, non-political tone and a spiritual framing of the topic. However, participants noted areas for logistical improvement, such as better structured small-group discussions for youth.

The Masculine Experience in Church: There is a perceived gap in curated institutional resources and dedicated advisory councils on the church level specifically tailored to adult men, unlike other church demographics.

Fostering Connection for Men: Men naturally connect “shoulder-to-shoulder” through shared physical activities, service, and adventure rather than traditional face-to-face chat formats. Utilizing creative layouts, interactive exercises, or specific musical numbers can drastically improve engagement.

Impact of Local Leadership: While institutional resources are helpful, local leadership ultimately has the greatest impact on an individual’s everyday church experience and ward culture.

Mental Capacity and Burnout: Serving in high-demand callings creates a significant emotional and mental load. Leaders often mistakenly take on individual responsibilities that belong to others, which risks burning out active members and themselves.

Leadership Applications

Adapt the Second Hour: Elders Quorum presidencies can pivot away from dry lectures by arranging room seating dynamically (e.g., pulling out tables, utilizing outdoor spaces, or splitting into smaller circles) to prompt natural connection.

Establish Call Limits: Bishops and Relief Society presidents can manage emotional fatigue by implementing clear structural boundaries—such as processing welfare and check requests only on Sundays—instead of allowing everyday crises to overlap into family time.

Empower Through Accountability: Rather than acting as a “black hole of need” by driving around to manage every logistical demand for struggling members, leaders should focus on helping individuals build personal testimonies so they find motivation to step up independently.

00:04:10 – Leaked Meetinghouse Blueprints and the Chapel Lectern

00:05:42 – Reviewing Fifth Sunday Lessons on the US Constitution

00:07:54 – Examining Men’s Institutional Resources and the Advisory Council Gap

00:12:35 – Cultural Dynamics and How Men Build Peer Connections

00:24:14 – Practical Tips for Building Better Elders Quorum Lessons

00:28:54 – Reimaging Second-Hour Formats, Small Groups, and Music

00:39:43 – Managing the Mental Load and Burnout in Local Ward Leadership

00:43:32 – Handling Inner-City Ward Welfare Dynamics and Establishing Boundaries

The award-winning Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints’ mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Find Leadership Tools, Courses, and Community for Latter-day Saint leaders in the Zion Lab community. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org.

Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Benjamin Hardy, Elder Alvin F. Meredith III, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Bonnie Oscarson, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Kirby Heyborne, Taysom Hill, Coaches Jennifer Rockwood and Brandon Doman, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson, Ryan Gottfredson, Greg McKeown, Ganel-Lyn Condie, Michael Goodman, Wendy Ulrich, Richard Ostler, and many more in over 800 episodes.

Discover podcasts, articles, virtual conferences, and live events related to callings such as the bishopric, Relief Society, elders quorum, Primary, youth leadership, stake leadership, ward mission, ward council, young adults, ministering, and teaching.