One Decision

In 1997, Peter Bergen found himself in the mountains of Afghanistan, face-to-face with al-Qaeda founder Osama bin Laden. During the ensuing landmark interview, bin Laden foreshadowed the terrorist attacks of September 11.

In Part One of our two-part series commemorating the 25th anniversary of 9/11, journalist and author Peter Bergen sits down with former head of MI6 Sir Richard Dearlove and co-host John Raine to discuss the legacy of the 9/11 attacks, including the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. Bergen talks about why negotiating with Osama bin Laden would have been a nonstarter and why the attacks bin Laden orchestrated generated shock, not surprise, within government intelligence agencies. Bergen and the hosts also discuss decisions after the attacks that Dearlove witnessesed firsthand, the proper relationship between intelligence and policy, how the war on terror reshaped the US view of coalitions and allies, and how the conflict in Ukraine points to the future of warfare.

In this episode:

(00:00) Lessons of Afghanistan and Iraq Wars

(03:23) Would Negotiating with Osama bin Laden Have Worked?

(06:21) Feeling in US Immediately Post-9/11

(11:29) Origins of Iraq War

(15:55) Policy and Intelligence

(17:08) Imperial Power of the Presidency

(21:16) Why Were There No Major Attacks After 9/11?

(25:13) Role of Coalitions and Allies

(34:31) Legacy of Fighting Global War on Terror

(41:10) Importance of Tribalism

(46:54) Scale of Troop Presence and Outcome

(50:41) Ukraine as Laboratory for Modern Warfare

(54:38) One Decision: Why Trump Should Declare Victory in Iran

(56:41) Takeaways and Wrap Up

Hosted by Sir Richard Dearlove (former MI6 Chief) and guest co-host John Raine (International Institute for Strategic Studies)
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It has been five years since the US withdrew its forces from Afghanistan in August 2021, accepting defeat after a 20-year presence in the country. Was this ever a winnable war? War correspondent Jon Lee Anderson of The New Yorker walks former head of MI6 Sir Richard Dearlove and co-host John Raine through the Taliban resurgence. Anderson discusses why it was a strategic error to not allow Hamid Karzai to actually govern, and how that blunder facilitated both the return of opium production and the Taliban comeback. He also talks about what happened to the Northern Alliance, the complexities of Afghan allegiances and loyalties, lessons in counterinsurgency, the importance of winning the hearts and minds of a people, and what diplomatic relations with a Taliban-led Afghanistan could look like.

In this episode:

(00:00) Ceding an Aura of Invincibility

(03:15) Was Afghanistan Ever a Winnable War?

(07:26) Karzai and State Building

(11:12) Opium Production and Taliban

(18:43) Shadow Taliban Government

(27:09) What Happened to the Northern Alliance?

(33:39) Navigating US-Afghani Cultural Differences

(39:14) Afghanistan’s Geography

(42:45) Lessons in Counterinsurgency

(48:26) Legacy of Afghanistan War

(50:09) Persistence of Taliban Government

(51:58) Diplomatic Relations with Taliban

(55:28) One Decision: The West Must Engage Afghanistan

(56:41) Takeaways and Wrap Up

Hosted by Sir Richard Dearlove (former MI6 Chief) and guest co-host John Raine (International Institute for Strategic Studies)
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How did a Holocaust-denying, hardline former president of Iran become the centerpiece of an Israeli plan to topple the regime in Tehran? Former head of MI6 Sir Richard Dearlove and co-host John Raine sit down with New York Times investigative journalists Mark Mazzetti and Ronen Bergman to detail the high-stakes intelligence mission that preceded Operation Epic Fury. They explain how Israel’s Mossad groomed former Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad into an intelligence asset, and how Mossad director David Barnea Ahmadinejad to the White House in February 2026 as part of a plan for rapid regime change in Iran. They also discuss the plan’s collapse within days of the decapitation strikes, why the plan to use Kurdish forces as a ground proxy was a non-starter, how the political fallout from the war may forever change US-Israel relations, and the electoral implications for both US President Donald Trump and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu this fall.

(00:00) Legacy of the Iran War

(02:30) Origins of Ahmadinejad Plot

(05:10) Planning Iranian Regime Change

(08:08) Was Ahmadinejad a Double Agent?

(12:45) Why Recruit Ahmadinejad?

(15:34) Selling Trump on Regime Change

(25:12) Credibility of Kurdish Option

(33:27) War Planning vs. Reality

(35:32) Legacy of Ahmadinejad Plot

(38:55) Did Israel Manipulate the US?

(41:44) Mood of Iranian People

(43:58) Deal Prospects

(46:18) Maximum Pressure on Iran

(48:05) Impact of Israel’s Coming Elections

(49:03) Takeaways, Audience Comments, and Wrap Up

Hosted by Sir Richard Dearlove (former MI6 Chief) and guest co-host John Raine (International Institute for Strategic Studies)
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Vladimir Putin promised Russia a "dictatorship of law" when he took office in 2000. He delivered the dictatorship -- but not the law.

This week, Russia expert, human rights lawyer, and founder of Russia's first independent foreign law firm Jamison Firestone joins journalist Rosanna Lockwood and former head of MI6 Sir Richard Dearlove to discuss his new book, Rule of Lies: My Wild Ride Through Chaos, Corruption, and Murder in Putin's Russia. Firestone lived through the upheaval of the early 1990s and worked alongside Sergei Magnitsky, who was murdered after exposing a Russian state built to loot itself. Firestone explains why Russia may now be close to a historical tipping point, how $300 billion in frozen Russian assets could be legally transferred to Ukraine to fund Kyiv;s war effort, and the ways in which Donald Trump has emulated Putin and Yeltsin.

Plus, in Brief: changes coming to Germany's BND, the legacy of former Chinese Premier Zhu Rongji, Iceland's referendum on restarting EU membership talks, and the latest in the Iran War.

In this episode:

(00:00) Why Ukraine Matters

(02:06) Germany Expands BND Powers

(05:01) Zhu Rongji

(07:52) Iceland EU Vote and NATO Role

(11:46) Iran Deadline and Strait Tensions

(15:11) Meet Jamison Firestone

(16:42) Growing Up Around Gangsters

(26:15) Loving Russia Despite Putin

(30:46) Can Russia Reach a Tipping Point

(34:32) Mobilization Pressure and Next Steps

(36:15) Ukraine Aid and Frozen Funds

(41:17) Legal Case For Seizure

(43:57) Reparations Loan Explained

(50:25) US Politics And Trump Parallels

(54:24) How Putin Could Fall

(57:06) Can Russia Be Democratic

(59:03) Putin Isolation And Ukraine Motive

(01:02:12) Life In London And Safety

(01:05:08) Magnitsky Legacy And Costs

(01:11:33) Drone Swarms And Future War

Show Notes:

Rule of Lies: My Wild Ride Through Chaos, Corruption, and Murder in Putin's Russia | https://www.harpercollins.com/products/rule-of-lies-jamison-r-firestone?variant=44366648180770

Website to learn more about Jamison Firestone’s advocacy: https://makeputinpay.org/

Hosted by Sir Richard Dearlove (former MI6 Chief) and guest co-host Rosanna Lockwood (International Journalist)
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What role do intelligence services play under a president that does not heed their advice? That’s one of the questions Pulitzer Prize–winning reporter Tim Weiner posits in his most recent book, The Mission, which details how the modern Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) has evolved during the era of the global war on terror. Weiner describes the evolution of the missions undertaken by the CIA, which were historically driven by presidential desires to change the world through covert action, and contrasts them with the post-Cold War agency that grapples with trust and reputation in the information era. Weiner also discusses how the delicate interplay between betrayal and trust underwrites intelligence work, the common aim of pursuing secrets that intelligence and journalism share, and why he believes the cumulative effects of partisan purges within intelligence services under President Donald Trump leaves the United States in a dire state of danger.

Sir Richard Dearlove and guest co-host Rosanna Lockwood dive into the news stories in geopolitics shaping the world this week: how a secret CIA task force in Cuba may be laying the groundwork for a more American-friendly government, why the construction of a new giant embassy for China is igniting political NIMBY-ism in London, and what US intelligence says about how stray Russian missiles and drones may be Putin’s way of testing NATO’s resolve.

(03:07) Secret CIA Cuba Task Force

(07:24) New Chinese Embassy in London

(12:31) Will Putin Test NATO’s Resolve?

(14:37) Interview with Tim Weiner

(15:29) Difficulty of Writing About the CIA

(20:07) Human Element of Espionage

(22:56) Evolution of the CIA

(25:57) Sir Richard’s Post-9/11 Intel Recollections

(30:08) Journalists, Intelligence, and Secrecy

(34:58) Intelligence and Policy

(39:59) Modern CIA Missions Under Trump

(48:31) Partisan Purges in US Intel Services

(54:55) Can Institutional Trust Recover?

(58:48) Trump’s Potential Paradoxical Legacy

(01:02:47) One Decision to Watch

(01:03:32) Takeaways, Audience Comments, and Wrap Up

Hosted by Sir Richard Dearlove (former MI6 Chief) and guest co-host Rosanna Lockwood (international journalist).
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