Ruminations podcast | Listen online for free

Available Episodes

5 of 13

This Regenerative Vineyard is Redefining Terroir
#12 – Michael Frey is the co-founder of DIRT Wine and second-generation steward of Mariah Vineyards, the first vineyard in the world to be Ecological Outcome Verified and produce Land to Market Verified wines. Located on a remote ridge 2,400 feet above sea level in Mendocino County, California, Michael and his wife Nicole have transformed her family’s vineyard into a thriving model of regenerative viticulture—farming without irrigation or synthetic chemicals, integrating livestock via Holistic Management, and using real ecological monitoring to drive land management decisions. In this episode, we explore: – how Michael and Nicole convinced the older generation to embrace a new regenerative path – the specific vineyard practices they’ve adopted—from diverse cover crops and contract grazing to sap analysis and pollinator trials – the disconnect between terroir and soil health in mainstream wine culture – and why transparency, not just flavor, might be the most radical thing you can put on a wine label. We also dig into the challenges of regenerative farming in a dry-farmed vineyard at elevation, the aesthetic tensions between “clean” and “complex” landscapes, and how Michael is thinking about measuring nutrient density and flavor outcomes at a deeper level. +++ ALL EPISODES: 👉 https://savory.global/podcast JOIN THE COMMUNITY + GET MEMBERS-ONLY PERKS: 👉 https://savory.global/member GET INVOLVED WITH SAVORY INSTITUTE: 👉 https://savory.global/find-your-path +++ 00:00 Intro 01:56 Welcome Michael Frey 03:06 Regenerative viticulture 07:41 Michael & Nicole's journey to regenerative 22:29 1st steps of their transition 36:37 Trade-offs & considerations of regenerative viticulture 43:59 The importance of data 45:30 Terroir 47:16 Conventional vs. Regenerative viticulture 52:15 Transparency (or lack thereof) for additives 55:10 Introducing DIRT Wine 59:54 The Future of Regenerative Viticulture 01:06:59 Advice for consumers & wine growers 01:12:24 Favorite failures 01:17:25 Looking ahead 01:26:50 Closing thoughts +++ MENTIONED IN THE EPISODE: – https://www.dirt-wine.com/ – https://mariahvineyards.com/ – https://savory.global/eov/ – https://savory.global/land-to-market/ – https://sonomawinegrape.org/paul-dolans-deep-sonoma-county-roots/ – https://www.stephanvanvliet.com/ – https://www.bionutrient.org/ +++ This episode is brought to you by Savory’s Regenerating Members, a global community restoring over 100 million acres through Holistic Management. For less than $1 per day, you can help regenerate 400+ acres every year: 👉 https://savory.global/member Want to sponsor an episode? 👉 https://savory.global/podcast +++ FIND US ON SOCIAL: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/savoryinstitute LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/savory-institute/ +++ HAVE A GUEST SUGGESTION? We’d love to hear your thoughts: 👉 https://www.tfaforms.com/5169997 +++ Music written & performed by https://www.youtube.com/@travismcnamara9313
--------
1:29:13
--------
1:29:13
Regenerative Economics w/ Hunter Lovins
#11 – Hunter Lovins is a regenerative-economy trailblazer, co-author of the bestselling books Natural Capitalism and A Finer Future, and a force behind initiatives that help farmers, CEOs, and even entire nations build “economies in service of life.” In this episode, we revisit the big ideas of Natural Capitalism 25 years on, unpack Hunter’s blueprint for a just, regenerative economy, and hear why she’s co-launching COPx—a people-powered alternative to the UN climate talks. Hunter also shares stories from the field: scaling community-managed natural farming with 4 million smallholders in India, quadrupling yields in Zambia, and advising Gulf states on turning desert sands green. Along the way we talk about regenerative economics, the double-edged sword that is capitalism, “global weirding,” and how every plate she spins—finance, policy, ranching, activism—aims at one goal: tackling climate, water, and food crises all at once. +++ ALL EPISODES: 👉 https://savory.global/podcast JOIN THE COMMUNITY + GET MEMBERS-ONLY PERKS: 👉 https://savory.global/member GET INVOLVED WITH SAVORY INSTITUTE: 👉 https://savory.global/find-your-path +++ 00:00 Intro 04:00 Hunter’s current projects 10:03 Where does resistance to change originate? 16:36 Neoliberal economics 23:46 Origins of neoliberal capitalism 28:17 Mercantilism 34:08 Regenerating Membership 35:10 Capitalism vs. the Degrowth movement 38:40 'Natural Capitalism' 25 years later 40:53 Introducing 'A Finer Future' 44:25 COPx 58:47 What’s on the horizon? 01:02:35 Final thoughts +++ MENTIONED IN THE EPISODE: – https://www.natcapsolutions.org/natcapinc/ – https://apcnf.in/global/ – https://reclaimdemocracy.org/powell_memo_lewis/ – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_F._Powell_Jr. – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Gustave_Speth – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Drucker – https://natcapsolutions.org/ – https://www.copx.earth/ – https://www.clubofrome.org/ – https://capitalinstitute.org/team/john-fullerton/ – https://capitalinstitute.org/regenerative-capitalism/ – https://www.kateraworth.com/ – https://doughnuteconomics.org/ – https://drawdown.org/ +++ This episode is brought to you by Savory’s Regenerating Members, a global community restoring over 100 million acres through Holistic Management. For less than $1 per day, you can help regenerate 400+ acres every year: 👉 https://savory.global/member Want to sponsor an episode? 👉 https://savory.global/podcast +++ FIND US ON SOCIAL: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/savoryinstitute LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/savory-institute/ +++ HAVE A GUEST SUGGESTION? We’d love to hear your thoughts: 👉 https://www.tfaforms.com/5169997 +++ Music written & performed by https://www.youtube.com/@travismcnamara9313
--------
1:04:49
--------
1:04:49
Growing the World's Best Wool
In this episode, we sit down with Jen Hunter and Andy Wear of Fernhill Farm and Fernhill Fiber, recognized as the 2022 Sheep Farmers of the Year by Farmers Weekly. With decades of shepherding under their belts, they share insights on how they've transformed their hilltop farm into a thriving cultural and ecological hub, cross-breeding 6 types of sheep to produce premium wool, on-farm events with 20,000 attendees, how EOV data informs their management, and more. +++ ALL EPISODES: 👉 https://savory.global/podcast JOIN THE COMMUNITY + GET MEMBERS-ONLY PERKS: 👉 https://savory.global/member GET INVOLVED WITH SAVORY INSTITUTE: 👉 https://savory.global/find-your-path +++ 00:00 Intro 01:25 Fernhill’s Fiber Experience event 07:19 Setting the stage 11:10 Jen’s background 15:57 The history of Fernhill 22:38 From shepherding to Holistic Planned Grazing 28:24 Trading weddings for wool 37:17 Join the movement 38:18 Financial planning 47:23 Field observations 56:27 Balancing ecological & nutritional needs 01:00:38 Ecological monitoring 01:09:16 Partnering with HD Wool 01:11:17 Cross-breeding 6 types of sheep 01:21:47 Future aspirations 01:28:27 Final Thoughts +++ MENTIONED IN THE EPISODE: – https://www.fernhill-farm.co.uk/ – https://fernhillfibre.co.uk/ – https://fernhillfibre.co.uk/events/fernhill-fibre-experience-21st-march-2026 – https://www.fieldmargin.com/ – https://www.3lm.network/ – https://fernhillfibre.co.uk/eov-regenerative-verification – https://www.hdwool.com/ +++ This episode is brought to you by Savory’s Regenerating Members, a global community restoring over 100 million acres through Holistic Management. For less than $1 per day, you can help regenerate 400+ acres every year: 👉 https://savory.global/member Want to sponsor an episode? 👉 https://savory.global/podcast +++ FIND US ON SOCIAL: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/savoryinstitute LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/savory-institute/ +++ HAVE A GUEST SUGGESTION? We’d love to hear your thoughts: 👉 https://www.tfaforms.com/5169997 +++ Music written & performed by https://www.youtube.com/@travismcnamara9313
--------
1:33:41
--------
1:33:41
Ecological Monitoring & Nomadic Living Across Europe
In this episode of Ruminations, we explore what it means to be in relationship with place—even while living a nomadic lifestyle. Our guest is Leon Bucher: Holistic Management educator, EOV Verifier, and one of five members of Savory’s Global Quality Assurance team for Ecological Outcome Verification (EOV). Together, we unpack how EOV works—not just the mechanics, but the deeper meaning. Leon shares insights from years of walking land with producers across Europe, explaining how ecological indicators serve as feedback loops for better management. From baseline monitoring to five-year trend analysis, we look at what getting EOV actually involves for a farmer or rancher—and why, in Leon’s words, regeneration is ultimately about relationship. +++ ALL EPISODES: 👉 https://savory.global/podcast JOIN THE COMMUNITY + GET MEMBERS-ONLY PERKS: 👉 https://savory.global/member GET INVOLVED WITH SAVORY INSTITUTE: 👉 https://savory.global/find-your-path +++ 00:00 Intro 02:13 A German nomad lands in northern Sweden 09:54 Career shifts 26:28 Learn everything or just get started? 31:31 Why do ecological monitoring? 34:01 TAKE MORE PHOTOS! 39:37 Monitoring for marketplace differentiation 41:18 Regenerating Members 45:20 What is EOV? 50:41 Calibrating data by eco-region 57:07 How indicators correlate to ecosystem processes 01:00:08 Leon’s favorite ecological indicators 01:01:34 Engaging your senses in monitoring 01:08:35 Setting up EOV on your farm or ranch 01:17:34 Trendlines & comparing to reference sites 01:20:27 Walking through an EOV report 01:23:37 Quality Assurance review 01:34:29 “Regeneration is relationships” 01:39:51 Final Thoughts +++ MENTIONED IN THE EPISODE: – https://landregeneration.eu/en/ – https://savory.global/increasing-caring-capacity/ – https://youtu.be/-9b6nwJayqY?si=vL2drwUvy2UKPftM – https://www.anadolumera.com/en – https://natcapsolutions.org/product/purchaseafinerfuture/ – https://savory.global/eov/ – http://leonbucher.com/ – https://www.instagram.com/leon_regenerative_journeys/ +++ This episode is brought to you by Savory’s Regenerating Members, a global community restoring over 100 million acres through Holistic Management. For less than $1 per day, you can help regenerate 400+ acres every year: 👉 https://savory.global/member Want to sponsor an episode? 👉 https://savory.global/podcast +++ FIND US ON SOCIAL: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/savoryinstitute LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/savory-institute/ +++ HAVE A GUEST SUGGESTION? We’d love to hear your thoughts: 👉 https://www.tfaforms.com/5169997 +++ Music written & performed by https://www.youtube.com/@travismcnamara9313
--------
1:43:13
--------
1:43:13
The Dirt on Soil Health Policy & Legislation
In this episode of Ruminations, we dig into the legislative soil beneath America’s regenerative agriculture movement with Aria McLauchlan, co-founder and executive director of LandCore. Aria brings a rare insider’s view of how soil health is making its way into federal and state policy—often against the odds. We explore how LandCore is reshaping the policy landscape by working alongside USDA, legislators, producers, and investors to mainstream soil health as a critical lever for economic resilience, food security, and climate action. You’ll hear about their groundbreaking risk modeling tools, the Soil Health Bill Tracker, and what it actually takes to get meaningful policy passed in a system designed for the status quo. +++ ALL EPISODES: 👉 https://savory.global/podcast JOIN THE COMMUNITY + GET MEMBERS-ONLY PERKS: 👉 https://savory.global/member GET INVOLVED WITH SAVORY INSTITUTE: 👉 https://savory.global/find-your-path +++ 00:00 Intro 03:20 Welcome Aria 04:20 Aria's Journey into Policy 09:55 Founding LandCore: Mission and Goals 12:15 Economic Incentives for Farmers 16:48 Navigating Capitol Hill: Engaging Policymakers 24:51 Risk Mitigation and Soil Health 32:31 LandCore's Risk Modeling Tool 37:55 Challenges in Modeling Grazing Practices 42:05 Practice-Based vs. Outcomes-Based Approaches 44:27 LandCore's Policy Priorities 45:56 The Farm Bill 51:28 Engaging with Legislators 59:49 Broader Implications and Agencies Involved 01:04:59 Global Perspectives 01:08:33 Economic Case for Soil Health 01:22:18 Future of Soil Health Policy 01:28:20 Final Thoughts +++ MENTIONED IN THE EPISODE: – https://landcore.org/ – https://landcore.org/bill-tracker – https://landcore.org/news-post/2024/05/02/land-core-risk-model-interactive-beta-tool – https://landcore.org/news-post/public-comments-hhs-dietary-guidelines – (BONUS) https://landcore.org/news-post/rooted-in-health-the-soil-and-human-health-connection +++ This episode is brought to you by Savory’s Regenerating Members, a global community restoring over 100 million acres through Holistic Management. For less than $1 per day, you can help regenerate 400+ acres every year: 👉 https://savory.global/member Want to sponsor an episode? 👉 https://savory.global/podcast +++ FIND US ON SOCIAL: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/savoryinstitute LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/savory-institute/ +++ HAVE A GUEST SUGGESTION? We’d love to hear your thoughts: 👉 https://www.tfaforms.com/5169997 +++ Music written & performed by Travis McNamara.
--------
1:32:51
--------
1:32:51