Ways to Change the World with Krishnan Guru-Murthy

Navi Pillay is a renowned human rights lawyer and the recipient of the 2026 Nobel Peace Prize. Her most recent fight for justice was as Chair of a UN Commission which concluded Israel committed acts of genocide in Gaza.
Pillay’s career emerged out of a struggle against apartheid in South Africa where she was born. She became the first woman to establish a law firm defending apartheid activists and political prisoners, and made headlines in 1973 when she secured legal rights for the imprisoned Nelson Mandela. Pillay later became the first non-white woman judge in South Africa’s High Court. She then went on to serve as judge on the UN-backed International Criminal Tribunal for the genocide in Rwanda. 
In this episode of Ways to Change the World, Pillay talks to Krishnan Guru-Murthy about her lifelong fight for justice which has challenged impunity at the highest of levels. Pillay’s award has most recently led to both the US and Israeli leaders condemning the decision and issuing sanctions against the International Criminal Court. The 85-year-old also reflects on what international justice looks like today in a conflict-ridden world increasingly dominated by strong men.

Simon Armitage believes poetry changes the world not by telling us what to think, but through persuasion, wonder and the possibilities of language.

In this episode of Ways to Change the World, the Poet Laureate joins Krishnan Guru-Murthy to discuss his new version of Gilgamesh, a story of friendship, power, loss and immortality that has survived for thousands of years. He reflects on discovering poetry through Ted Hughes, leaving behind his career as a probation officer, writing for moments of national significance, and why the oldest stories can still help us make sense of the world today.

Donald Trump called her a “nasty woman”. In private, he called her “the killer”. Now Chrystia Freeland says the lesson for America’s allies is simple: do not capitulate.
In this episode of Ways to Change the World, Krishnan Guru-Murthy speaks to the former Canadian Deputy Prime Minister about standing up to Trump, why she believes Ukraine must defeat Putin, and the growing threat to liberal democracy.
Drawing on her new book Unreliable Boyfriend, Freeland explains how the Western alliance fractured, how it could be rebuilt, and why she remains optimistic about the future of democracy.She also reflects on her journey from journalist to politician, growing up in a small Canadian town, and standing up to Trump at the negotiating table.

Anthony Scaramucci is a Wall Street banker, podcaster and former White House communications director who spent just 11 days working for Donald Trump before being fired. Once a Trump supporter, he has since become one of his most vocal critics, and it would seem that the feeling is mutual, with Trump calling him an "unstable 'nut job'" who showed "gross incompetence" during his 11-day tenure. His new book, All the Wrong Moves, looks at the political and economic decisions he believes helped create the anger and populism that transformed American politics.

In this episode of Ways to Change the World, Scaramucci talks to Krishnan Guru-Murthy about his time inside the Trump White House, why he believes America’s political system needs reform, the role of big money in politics, the impact of China, the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq and the 2008 financial crisis. He also reflects on his Republican identity, why he believes Donald Trump was able to tap into economic and cultural anger, whether the Republican Party can survive Trump, and whether America can find its way back from the political divisions of the last decade.

Alexei Sayle has spent a lifetime mixing comedy with politics, protest and an instinctive suspicion of authority.

Raised in a communist household in Liverpool, he became one of the defining figures of alternative comedy before building a career as a writer, actor and political activist. His latest book, How I’ve Tried to Change the World by Walking Down the Middle of the Street Shouting, looks back at decades of marches, political battles, defeats and moments of hope.

In this episode of Ways to Change the World, Alexei talks to Krishnan Guru-Murthy about Gaza and Israel, and his feelings on the “genocide” of Palestinians (which Israel denies), his Jewish identity, whether protest actually works, why he remains a Marxist, growing up surrounded by communism and how politics shaped his comedy.

He also reflects on falling out of fashion in the 1990s, his unlikely success on TikTok, why comedy should never become a political lecture and why, after decades of campaigning, he still hasn’t entirely given up on changing the world.