PRETEND

In Part 1, we watched skeptic Susan Gerbic dissect a celebrity psychic's cold reading techniques. But cold reading is the little leagues of the psychic industry. In Part 2, Susan sets her sights on something harder to catch... a hot reader.

Hot reading is when a psychic does their homework, researching their clients before the reading even starts. So Susan devises an elaborate sting: fake Facebook accounts, fake obituaries, fake family members, and $1,400 worth of bait designed to catch a medium in the act.

Six skeptics go undercover as grieving siblings. They don't know each other. They don't know the backstory. And they have no idea what's about to happen.

This episode takes you inside "Operation Banana Cream Pie." Let's just say, the moment the medium logs onto the Zoom call, no one saw it coming.

ABOUT SUSAN GERBIC:

Susan Gerbic is a Fellow of the Committee for Skeptical Inquiry and founder of Guerrilla Skepticism on Wikipedia, a group that has written over 2,000 Wikipedia articles on science and pseudoscience — viewed more than 200 million times. Her most famous investigation, "Operation Pizza Roll," was featured in The New York Times Magazine and exposed medium Thomas John's hot reading techniques. Susan runs the nonprofit About Time, which funds her ongoing psychic investigations.

Want more? Susan Gerbic documented the entire Operation Banana Cream Pie sting on her YouTube channel "Psychics Explained"—20+ videos of behind-the-scenes footage. Link in the show notes.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLcSfdioxwHQGkyFZ68maphdIJuYcb8xln

LINKS & RESOURCES:


Susan Gerbic's YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@PsychicsExplained


About Time Project: https://www.abouttimeproject.org/


NYT Magazine feature on Operation Pizza Roll: https://archive.ph/20190226135004/https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/26/magazine/psychics-skeptics-facebook.html

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Longtime Patreon supporter Rebecca Catalfu joins Javier to unpack her firsthand experience going undercover at Matt Fraser's psychic readings.

Rebecca went into this investigation as a believer and came out the other side with a very different perspective. In this conversation, she and Javier break down the patterns they observed across multiple readings: the decision tree (grandparent, parent, or mystery), the "who is that to you?" fishing technique, the stop statements psychics use when they're not getting hits, and the emotional bell curve that takes grievers to rock bottom before lifting them back up with platitudes.

Rebecca also shares what it was like to make it into the virtual "panelist waiting room," the inconsistencies she noticed while analyzing readings for Susan's YouTube channel, and why she's most concerned about the predatory potential these readings pose to vulnerable people.

Plus: Javier attempts his own cold reading. It does not go well.

LINKS:

Susan Gerbic's YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@PsychicsExplained

Matt Fraser Playlist: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLcSfdioxwHQGkyFZ68maphdIJuYcb8xln

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Skeptic Susan Gerbic invited PRETEND inside one of her psychic sting operations. In Part 1 of this three-part series, we go inside "Operation Gobble Gotcha," a Thanksgiving sting targeting celebrity psychic Matt Fraser. Susan and her team of volunteers infiltrate one of Matt's online group readings to observe his techniques in real time. What they witness isn't a connection to the other side. It's a technique called cold reading. And once you see it, you can't unsee it.

BINGE ALL THREE EPISODES:

Patreon:

https://www.patreon.com/posts/didnt-see-it-2-147839354?utm_medium=clipboard_copy&utm_source=copyLink&utm_campaign=postshare_creator&utm_content=join_link

PRETEND+ on Apple Podcast:

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/channel/pretend/id6443456985

ABOUT SUSAN GERBIC:

Susan Gerbic is a Fellow of the Committee for Skeptical Inquiry and founder of Guerrilla Skepticism on Wikipedia, a group that has written over 2,000 Wikipedia articles on science and pseudoscience — viewed more than 200 million times. Her most famous investigation, "Operation Pizza Roll," was featured in The New York Times Magazine and exposed medium Thomas John's hot reading techniques. Susan runs the nonprofit About Time, which funds her ongoing psychic investigations.

LINKS & RESOURCES:


Susan Gerbic's YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@PsychicsExplained


About Time Project: https://www.abouttimeproject.org/


NYT Magazine feature on Operation Pizza Roll: https://archive.ph/20190226135004/https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/26/magazine/psychics-skeptics-facebook.html

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PRETEND's first live YouTube AMA, co-hosted by Patreon supporter Katie Watson. The conversation covers listener questions about the making of PRETEND, behind-the-scenes stories, and what's coming next.

Highlights include: how Javier knows when a story is worth pursuing (hint: it's like fishing) and his techniques for getting interview subjects to let their guard down. He shares updates on past subjects including LaDonna and Frank Abagnale.

Looking ahead to 2026: Season 25 kicks off next week with psychic stings featuring undercover Patreon supporters. Also coming: State of Corruption (North Carolina), a caught-on-camera confessional, and a Word of Faith Fellowship update—the DA supposed to try the case is now on trial himself.

00:00 Intro

02:53 Katie's Podcast Journey

04:08 The Art of Storytelling

06:09 Balancing Bias in Journalism

07:49 Building Trust with Interviewees

13:33 Balancing Podcasting and Life

14:55 Ponzi Playbook & Criminal Conduct

17:22 Scariest Interview Subjects

20:08 LaDonna Updates

26:15 Red Flags and Trust

27:37 Telepathy Tapes

30:58 The Truth in Storytelling

34:36 Interview Techniques

37:20 Biggest Challenges in Podcasting

39:14 Balancing Truth and Twists

42:37 Family Reactions

44:11 Maintaining Neutrality

45:19 Dream Project: Speed Dial

46:56 What's Coming in 2026

50:06 Proudest Series

58:35 Word of Faith Update

01:03:33 Season 25 Announcement


Blind Dave (Katie's YouTube show "Only in the UK"): https://youtube.com/@blinddave88


Decoding the Unknown: https://youtube.com/@decodingtheunknown2373


The Greatest Hoax on Earth by Alan Logan: https://a.co/d/gIHDef2

ChaptersLinks
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A Montana oncologist allegedly treated patients for cancer they never had and made millions doing it. We're re-releasing our two-part investigation into Dr. Thomas Weiner, plus a brand new interview with whistleblower Dr. Randy Sasich on what's happened since. The medical board finally revoked Weiner's license, but criminal charges still loom, a wrongful death lawsuit is underway, and the broken system that enabled this hasn't changed.

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