After starting with an existential crisis - "Are we basically doing the AI equivalent of a maths calculator podcast from the 1970s?" - in this news and research update, Dan and Ray unpack the latest developments in AI and education. Starting with China’s decision to shut down AI tools during national exams, they then revisit NSW’s EduChat chatbot, now in widespread use, with compelling data on time savings for teachers and learning benefits for students. The hosts dive into fresh research from the LEGO Foundation and Microsoft, both highlighting how young students engage with generative AI—and the equity and creativity issues that come with it. They also tackle the viral MIT study suggesting AI could cause "cognitive debt" and discuss why such claims should be taken with academic caution. Finally, Dan and Ray trace the recurring media fear that each new technology - from books to bicycles - has been accused of making us stupid. As always, they bring wit, warmth, and real insight into how AI is shaping education. Links and references for the studies, news and research discussed: News China shuts down AI tools during nationwide college exams [Bloomberg, The Verge] AI is in every NSW public school classroom. Is that a good thing? Anthropic's copyright case with Claude Research Lego research into children's use of ChatGPT [Project website] New Microsoft report on AI in Education announced at ISTE Your Brain on ChatGPT: Accumulation of Cognitive Debt when Using an AI Assistant for Essay Writing Task [Project website - Natalie Kosmina's LinkedIn announcement post - Time news story] And finally For your enjoyment, Donald Clark's "Sisyphean nature of moral panics against new technology" aka What's making us dumb this time? And if you want more enjoyment like Donald's article, then you'll love the Pessimists Archive on Twitter or their newsletter
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34:10
We finally meet Megan and James
We're halfway through Season 12 - the Student one - and in episode 6 you finally get to meet Megan (Year 7) and James (Year 11). Long-term listeners will have heard co-host Dan talking about how his own children use AI, and so now you can hear their perspectives. Dan asks both of them share how they and their friends use AI in school and outside. Enjoy the honest revelations!
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27:15
Gen Z's AI Reality
In this news and research-packed episode, Ray and Dan dive deep into the AI highlights from EduTech 2025 in Sydney - reflecting on the vibe, standout presentations, and the surprisingly light AI presence on the expo floor. They unpack major news from the UK’s Department for Education, OpenAI’s model pricing shake-up, and raise serious red flags over Meta AI’s privacy approach. The duo also tackles the big questions educators face: is AI destroying the planet? Can we trust AI with student data? And what do students themselves think? Featuring insights from two key research pieces - Australia’s "From Gen Z to Gen AI" and Jisc’s UK-based "Student Perceptions of AI 2025" - this episode reveals how students are using AI, what they’re worried about, and why institutions need to catch up. Links: UK Government's Policy Paper "Generative AI in Education" OpenAI releases o3-pro (Model Release Notes) and slashes the cost of o3-pro for developers, compared to o1-pro OpenAI forced to retain all conversation logs by the New York Times lawyers, and details of OpenAI's response Meta.ai privacy approach - so far, only covered by Crikey Energy/water usage of ChatGPT In Sam Altman's blog he said "the average query uses about 0.34 watt-hours, about what an oven would use in a little over one second, or a high-efficiency lightbulb would use in a couple of minutes." (about the same as a Google search) Dr Karen Boyd's excellent blog post we discussed: "Ethics & LLMs: Sustainability" which also contains the great comparison charts for electricity and water use for common activities. Details on Karen's upcoming book, Amplify Good Work Research on students' AI attitudes and use Dr Anna Denejkina's research "From Gen Z to GenAI: The impact, opportunities and challenges of Generative AI for young Australians" JISC's research "Student Perceptions of AI 2025", from Sue Attewell
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38:02
Students as AI Innovators, with Brett Moller
Students as AI Innovators In this inspiring episode of the podcast, hosts Ray and Dan speak with Brett Moller, Director of Knowledge Services / Head of Creative Industries at St. Andrew’s Anglican College on the Sunshine Coast. Brett shares how his school is flipping the AI narrative — from fear and compliance to student agency, creativity, and real-world problem-solving. He discusses how students are not only using AI tools but building their own large language models, crafting apps that respond to deeply personal challenges like Parkinson’s disease and anxiety, and collaborating with local industry on meaningful tech projects. From AI-powered research assistants to empathy-led app design, Brett’s stories highlight a future where students are not just consumers, but creators of AI solutions. This episode is packed with powerful insights on ethical AI use, teacher transformation, and the evolving role of libraries, educators, and students in the AI era. Learn more about the St Andrew's story: Interview with the winning students St Andrew’s Students Win International Recognition in Apple Swift Student Challenge Eight Aussie students recognised by Apple in their WWDC Student Challenge – Three from the SAME SCHOOL! Discover more about Sandy Robinson, the new St Andrew's Research Assistant St Andrew's Instagram Links to things mentioned in this episode: The Learner's Apprentice: AI and the Amplification of Human Creativity - Dr Ken Kahn's book GitHub project: MacMind (student-built LLMs) Apple Swift Student Challenge Microsoft Imagine Cup "Imagine Cup Junior" in a box
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44:25
Agents, Optimism & Essays: The Real AI Student Life
In this episode of the AI in Education Podcast, Dan and Ray dive deep into how students are really using - beyond the hype. They unpack recent findings from the Anthropic Education Report, exploring how students interact with models like Claude for study, writing, and even problem-solving. They discuss the latest sentiment data from a KPMG/University of Melbourne Business School report, "Trust, attitudes and use of artificial intelligence", revealing surprising differences in global optimism and concern about AI. (See the chart below, which isn't in the report, but Ray's creation from Figure 15) Plus, they share updates from Google I/O and Microsoft Build, highlight emerging trends in multi-agent systems, and reflect on how AI tools like VO are reshaping content creation. From skeptical spouses to the evolving role of educators, this episode blends data, insight, and laughs.
Dan Bowen and Ray Fleming are experienced education renegades who have worked in many various educational institutions and educational companies across the world. They talk about Artificial Intelligence in Education - what it is, how it works, and the different ways it is being used. It's not too serious, or too technical, and is intended to be a good conversation.
Please note the views on the podcast are our own or those of our guests, and not of our respective employers (unless we say otherwise at the time!)
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