PCC Local Time

• Better Conversations: How Managers Can Lead Stronger Deliberative Systems with Martín Carcasson

  🎧 This episode of PCC Local Time is part of the APMM Series, featuring conversations with Pennsylvania’s municipal managers and leaders about the evolving practice of local government.Follow APMM on LinkedIn and Read more at APMM.netIn this episode of the APMM Series, produced in partnership with PCC Local Time, Nancy J. Hess and Dr. Martin Carcasson explore how local government leaders can shift from problem-solvers to systems builders. Together, they trace how small shifts in process — better questions, framing, and facilitation — can profoundly affect trust and decision-making in communities.Dr. Martin Carcasson is a professor of Communication Studies at Colorado State University and the founding director of the Center for Public Deliberation (CPD) — a university-community partnership that helps local governments, school districts, and civic organizations improve how they talk about complex public issues.Martin’s work draws from communication theory, social psychology, and systems thinking to design better public conversations about “wicked problems” — the issues that have no simple or permanent solutions.He has collaborated extensively with the Kettering Foundation, the National Civic League, and the International City/County Management Association (ICMA), where he’s trained city managers and superintendents to act as deliberative systems leaders.In his words:“If city managers see themselves as systems leaders — deliberative systems leaders — their job is to get a sense of how this system works, and then figure out how to intervene in this system to improve it.”🧭 Timestamps00:00 – 02:20 — Opening: Why talk about conversations at all?Martin distinguishes debate, deliberation, and dialogue.“Debate, deliberation, and dialogue… each has strengths and weaknesses.” 02:20 – 05:10 — The Charlie Kirk example and what it reveals about campus “deliberative systems”A live example of tough conversations and what universities can learn.05:10 – 07:30 — Nancy introduces Paul Bloom’s “Against Empathy” and the need for reflection“Am I being manipulated or am I being educated?” — Nancy 07:30 – 10:00 — Why conversation matters in local governmentNancy frames the skepticism many leaders have: “Do we really need all these meetings?”Martin connects it to wicked problems and shared goals“We prefer the simple story… but these issues require complexity.” — Martin 10:00 – 13:00 — Brain science and the limits of human natureWhy we resist nuance — and how public processes often make this worse.13:00 – 16:40 — Pre-work matters: why tough conversations shouldn’t start “on the fly”“Confidence becomes very powerful… often when it shouldn’t be.” — Martin“For most of our meetings, we do a lot of pre-work.” — Martin 16:40 – 20:30 — How to gather opinions before the meetingSurveys, individual conversations, Google Forms, and anonymous responses.“I wouldn’t gather them and say, ‘What do you think?’ I’d want their perspectives first.” — Martin...

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• Conditions for Change: What it Takes to Move......a team, an organization, a local government.

  Hosts Dave Pribulka, Eden Ratliff, and Brandon Ford, are joined by Nancy Hess for a candid talk about what real change management looks like in local government. They explore how trust, timing, and human connection shape change — from labor negotiations to leadership teams to community-driven expectations.A double header this week… be sure to check out the chat for this week’s show!Subscribe to MuniSquare.Substack.com where you can find Generation on the Rise and PCC Local Time podcast episodes along with lots of other local government content!⏱️ Show Notes02:00 – 10:00 - What change management really looks like: buy-in, communication, and shifting expectations.10:00 – 18:00 - Real-world examples: labor negotiations, labor dynamics, and the conditions that make change possible.18:00 – 25:00 - External forces: AI, community pressure, and unexpected participation.25:00 – 33:00 - Pacing and leadership: slowing down on purpose, avoiding rushed decisions, emotional intelligence.33:00 – 42:00 - Trust, vulnerability, and the “blockbuster questions” that unlock better decisions.42:00 – 44:00 - Wrap-up: reflections and close.

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• Back from ICMA in Tampa - and a Deep Dive on Trust, Boundaries, and the Human Side of Leadership

  Fresh from the ICMA Conference in Tampa, the Generation on the Rise crew dives into how to draw the line between leadership and politics. Eden reflects on his ICMA session about rebuilding trust after a $3.2 million fraud case, while Dave and Brandon unpack what it means to stay apolitical and human in a world where expectations sometimes conflict with professional ethics. From the emotional side of management to candid talk about boards, boundaries, and values, this episode captures the nuance and humor of a profession in flux. Join hosts: Dave Pribulka, Brandon Ford, Eden Ratliff.Check out more content like this and PCC Local Time at [email protected]

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• APMM Series: Mapping our Path to Sustainable Communities with Sara Gibson, Bailey Rocco and Kate Robeson Grubb

  🎧 This episode of PCC Local Time is part of the APMM Series, featuring conversations with Pennsylvania’s municipal managers and leaders about the evolving practice of local government.In this episode on Sustainability, host Nancy Hess talks with three guests who are redefining what local sustainability looks like on the ground:Sara Gibson, Borough Manager, Camp Hill Borough, creator of StormfestBailey Rocco, Sustainability Coordinator, Pennsylvania Municipal LeagueKate Robeson Grubb, Sustainability Specialist, Solebury Township, and Penn State Distinguished Alumni Award recipientThey share how communities are translating mandates into meaningful local action—from stormwater festivals and inter-municipal cooperation to new sustainability certification programs and community engagement efforts.SHOWNOTES:00:00 – 02:00 | IntroductionNancy opens with reflections on the meaning of sustainability and how local governments bring it to life.Introduction of guests: Sara Gibson, Bailey Rocco, and Kate Robeson Grubb.02:00 – 22:00 | Sara Gibson – From Compliance to Community: The Story of StormfestOrigins of Stormfest and the MS4 stormwater permit requirementsTurning federal compliance into a community celebrationBuilding partnerships among watershed groups, boroughs, and volunteersEducating elected officials and residents about stormwater systems“We all live downstream” — understanding local impact and interconnectivityReflection on sustainability as intergovernmental collaboration and community awareness23:00 – 45:00 | Bailey Rocco – Measuring What Matters: The Sustainable PA ProgramBailey’s path from social work to sustainabilityHow Sustainable PA helps municipalities benchmark and communicate their sustainability effortsCertification levels: Bronze through PlatinumChallenges for small municipalities and the importance of partnerships with universitiesRegional collaboration and shared learning among municipalitiesTransparency, resident trust, and the power of visibilityFuture directions: energy use, inclusion tracking, and young professionals entering the field46:00 – 1:11:00 | Kate Robeson Grubb – Building the Future LocallyKate’s journey into sustainability and local governmentSolebury Township’s Energy Transition Plan and Ready for 100 goalsPartnerships with the Environmental Advisory Council and community volunteersChallenges: funding large projects and public educationThe link between sustainability and equity (affordable housing, inclusivity)Long-term planning vs. short-term wins (solar installations, single-use plastic ordinances)Clarifying misconceptions about sustainability and building local resilienceClosing reflections: “Resilient communities outlast instability.”1:11:00 – 1:12:00 | Closing

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• Generation on the Rise - Episode 2 - Networking, Mentorship, and the Art of Going There

  PCC Local Time is pleased to share another episode of a new podcast series, Generation on the Rise, a great companion piece to the content we post here and something we think you are all going to like.In this podcast series, local government's next generation sits down to talk about what's changing, what's hard, and why we believe it's worth doing. Join hosts: Dave Pribulka, Brandon Ford, Eden Ratliff, and Executive Producer Nancy J. Hess as they find the new normal — not the one we’re used to, but the one we are here to create.Welcome to Generation on the Rise!Be sure to follow this podcast at MuniSquare SHOW NOTES:00:00 – Warm-up: Tampa and Leaf Blowers02:30 – The “Middletown Budget Roadshow”06:00 – Introducing the Topic: Networking & Mentorship08:00 – The Brandon Factor09:00 – Why Networking Matters14:00 – The Golf Myth17:00 – Bad Advice from Mentors23:00 – The Shadow Side of Mentorship28:00 – When to Leave the Nest33:00 – The Manager–Assistant Dynamic35:00 – Bulls in the China Shop38:00 – Competing for the Same Job41:00 – The Unwritten Map44:00 – How to Actually Network47:00 – Networking as an Introvert50:00 – Following Up55:00 – The Value of Small Conferences58:00 – Closing Thoughts

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