Adulting with Autism

A company can celebrate neurodiversity, hire neurodivergent employees, and still create a workplace where those employees burn out trying to stay.
So what does inclusion look like after the interview?
In this episode of Adulting with Autism, I talk with Nat Hawley, founder of Divergent Thinking, a UK-based workplace neuroinclusion consultancy. Nat combines lived experience of autism, dyslexia, and dyspraxia with professional experience and a master's degree in applied neuroscience. His organization supports workplaces through training, coaching, needs assessments, and reviews of recruitment, communication, policies, and everyday practice.divergentthinking
We discuss the difference between awareness and embedded inclusion, why accessible recruitment must lead to sustainable employment, and how workplaces can remove unnecessary barriers before employees have to ask.
Nat also shares a practical approach to feedback: describe what happened, avoid assuming the worst, explain the impact, and work together on a way forward. We explore disclosure as a personal decision, asking for support, workplace needs passports, and why promotion should recognize results—not require everyone to follow one narrow path.
This episode is for neurodivergent employees, job seekers, managers, HR teams, parents supporting young adults, and anyone tired of hearing "read the room" instead of receiving clear instructions.
In this episode
p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Nat's journey from understanding himself through limitations to recognizing his strengths.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Combining lived experience, professional practice, and neuroscience.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Universal design: starting with how people work rather than requiring people to fit existing processes.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Why celebrating neurodiversity is different from embedding inclusion into everyday decisions.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Moving from reactive support toward proactive, sustainable workplace practices.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> The difference between getting someone hired and helping them stay without exhausting themselves.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Recruitment processes that reward familiarity and social performance rather than revealing talent.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Written communication, quiet spaces, and accessible onboarding as everyday design choices.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Checking staffing, training, workload, and time expectations before blaming an employee.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Questions job seekers can ask about policies, employee networks, and leadership.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Nat's explanation of double empathy as a two-way effort to understand different communication styles.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Why "be more proactive," "it's obvious," and "read the room" can leave employees guessing.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> A feedback approach built around observation, impact, curiosity, and collaboration.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Framing support requests around what helps you contribute effectively.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Why disclosure is personal—not a requirement to become the office's neurodiversity spokesperson.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Workplace needs assessments and passports as ways to document practical support.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Recognizing when repeated unmet needs may indicate a workplace mismatch.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Career progression through different methods, including assistive technology.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Nat's example of using audio to improve his understanding and retention of written material.

About Nat Hawley
Nat Hawley is the founder of Divergent Thinking, a UK-based workplace neuroinclusion consultancy. In this conversation, he shares his lived experience of autism, dyslexia, and dyspraxia and describes a decade of supporting neurodivergent people with employment, purpose, and self-understanding.
A TEDx speaker with an MSc in Applied Neuroscience, Nat brings together personal experience and workplace expertise. Divergent Thinking offers consultancy, workplace needs assessments, strengths-based coaching, audits, manager training, workshops, and speaking services.divergentthinking
Find Nat's resources, training, coaching, workshops, and contact information at divergentthinking.uk—not ".co.uk."divergentthinking
Key takeaways
p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> An accessible interview is a beginning, not the end of inclusion.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Sustainable employment matters as much as recruitment.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Before judging performance, investigate the instructions, training, workload, environment, and available support.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Clear feedback describes behavior and impact rather than assigning a negative personality label.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Understanding communication differences should be a shared effort.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> People can discuss work preferences without making their whole identity available for public discussion.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Different methods can lead to the same valuable outcome.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Workplace inclusion should be built into everyday systems—not restarted every awareness week.

What if understanding your energy, attention, and daily struggles does not require another expensive wearable—or tracking every 15 minutes of your life?
In this episode of Adulting with Autism, I talk with science writer Gary Wolf, co-founder of the Quantified Self movement and author of The Quantified Self: Learning to Observe. His work explores how people can use their own observations and data to answer questions that matter in their everyday lives.:not([hidden])~:not([hidden]))]:border-soft bg-soft">workman+1
We discuss how to start with one concrete question: Do I have energy left after work? When do I crash? What makes me late? What helps me recover?
Gary explains why personal observations matter, how wearables can provide context without telling the whole story, and why an experiment that does not work is information—not proof that you failed. We also walk through my hypothetical work-crash pattern and explore how to investigate it without immediately turning my entire life upside down.
This conversation is for autistic, ADHD, and neurodivergent adults who want to understand themselves without creating another overwhelming productivity system.
In this episode
p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> How a gathering organized by Gary and Kevin Kelly became a worldwide self-research community.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> The three Quantified Self show-and-tell questions: "What did I do? How did I do it? What did I learn?"

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Why tracking attention or energy does not have to mean recording every moment.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Starting with one daily observation rather than a complicated dashboard.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Gary's practical starting suggestion of approximately six weeks of daily observations—not a universal threshold for proving a result.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Why "I had energy left after work" is a meaningful observation.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Refining vague measures into something easier to notice.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Investigating specific difficulties instead of trying to measure "executive function" as one giant concept.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Foreground data: the question or experience you actually care about.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Background data: context from wearables, calendars, messages, and other existing records.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> The difference between noticing a useful personal pattern and proving an intervention works for everyone.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> When tracking becomes more burdensome than useful.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> The role of clinician collaboration when questions involve symptoms, medication, or health decisions.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> April's hypothetical question: "Why do I crash every third workday?"

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Observing a pattern before choosing a change.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Using what you learn to select a small, relevant experiment.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Why curiosity can help replace the story "This system failed, so I'm a failure."

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Learning from other people's self-research without assuming their solution will fit your life.

About Gary
Gary Wolf is a science and technology writer based in Berkeley, California. A former executive editor of Wired Digital and contributing editor at Wired, he co-founded the Quantified Self movement in 2008.workman
He now works with the Personal Science Research Group to develop methods, tools, and case studies that support small-scale empirical research. His book, The Quantified Self: Learning to Observe, brings together personal stories and scientific reasoning methods for exploring questions about mood, cognition, sleep, pain, digestion, and other areas of life.:not([hidden])~:not([hidden]))]:border-soft bg-soft">workman+1
Resources:
p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Gary's website.antephase

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Quantified Self and book information.quantifiedself

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Publisher's book page.workman

Release note: The publisher lists October 6, 2026, as the book's release date. Use "available for preorder" if the episode publishes before then, and "available now" afterward.workman
Key takeaways
p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Start with a question that matters to you—not whatever your device happens to measure.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> One useful observation can be more manageable than a complicated tracking system.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Your experience belongs in the picture; a wearable score is not the whole story.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Personal patterns can guide questions and decisions without establishing universal cause and effect.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Tracking should serve your life. Reassess when its burden exceeds its usefulness.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> An unsuccessful experiment can still teach you something.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Health-related tracking can support a clinical conversation; it is not a substitute for medical evaluation or guidance on medication changes.

What if you spent years believing you were lazy, disorganized, not smart enough, too emotional, not trying hard enough, or "not living up to your potential"—only to discover that ADHD, executive-function differences, anxiety, and a learning disability were shaping your experience the entire time?
In this episode of Adulting with Autism, I talk with Marvie Corbett, clinical therapist, social worker, author, ADHD adult, parent of three, and educational advocate in the DC/Virginia area. Marvie shares how postpartum depression and anxiety led to cognitive testing—and how those results gave her language for a lifetime of struggles with focus, math, organization, task initiation, academic pressure, self-doubt, and masking.paste.txt
We talk about bright kids who can compensate until executive-function demands rise, the overlap between ADHD and anxiety, why girls are often labeled anxious or depressed before anyone looks at ADHD, and how families can support neurodivergent children without turning every struggle into a moral failure.
This is a conversation about replacing shame with context, building systems around your actual brain, and learning how to be the boss of your executive functioning instead of feeling controlled by it.
In This Episode, We Cover
p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Who Marvie Corbett is: clinical therapist, social worker, author, parent of three, ADHD adult, educational advocate, and clinician in the DC/Virginia area.paste.txt

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Why "bright but struggling," "lazy," "not trying," "unmotivated," and "not living up to your potential" are harmful labels for ADHD adults and children.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Executive functioning as a collection of skills or "muscles," not one single ability.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Different executive-function areas: task initiation, sustained attention, working memory, organization, planning, emotional regulation, impulse control, flexibility, prioritization, and follow-through.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Why task initiation gets so much attention: people can see that you are not starting the report, assignment, homework, email, or household task—but they cannot see the effort it takes to begin.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Marvie's late ADHD discovery after postpartum depression and anxiety with her second child.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> How cognitive testing helped separate sleep deprivation, anxiety, depression, focus difficulties, learning differences, and underlying ADHD patterns.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Why a good assessment can create a "lightbulb moment" for adults who have spent decades blaming themselves.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> The grief and relief of realizing, "I am actually smart. It was just really hard."

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> How ADHD and learning differences can remain hidden in academically bright children who compensate through intelligence, perfectionism, people-pleasing, overworking, anxiety, and last-minute effort.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Why executive-function demands often increase sharply around third and fourth grade, sixth grade, ninth grade, college, parenting, postpartum life, and high-pressure careers.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Why a child can do well in early grades and then "hit a wall" as organization, multi-step assignments, independent work, social complexity, and workload demands increase.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Marvie's realization that she also had a math learning disability and how that reframed years of frustration with math homework and academics.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Why girls are often diagnosed first with anxiety or depression while ADHD goes unseen.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Why anxiety and ADHD can become intertwined: behavioral feedback, rejection, impulsivity, overstimulation, fast thinking, threat scanning, perfectionism, and fear of disappointing people.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> ADHD and anxiety as "friends nobody asked for."

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Why highly capable ADHD adults may create elaborate systems, lists, reminders, alarms, notes, and organization hacks without realizing they are compensating for executive-function needs.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Neurodivergent and neurotypical relationships: why people can care deeply about each other while using different "operating systems."

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Why forgetfulness, missed dates, incomplete tasks, topic-switching, and delayed follow-through can hurt loved ones even when they are not intentional.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Why neurotypical people may need to pause before personalizing executive-function challenges.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Why neurodivergent people still need to take responsibility for creating systems that help them show up in relationships.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Batching: pairing a task you need to do with something more enjoyable or rewarding to make it easier to start.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Why neurotypical people do not always need to understand every neurodivergent brain hack in order to respect it.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> How ADHD masking differs from autistic masking.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> ADHD masking as overworking, people-pleasing, running too hot, striving for approval, overperforming, compensating, and pushing yourself beyond sustainable capacity.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Autistic masking as navigating social cues, performing expected behavior, modifying communication, managing eye contact, decoding indirect language, and suppressing natural responses.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Why "doing your best" should include leaving enough energy for home, rest, relationships, hobbies, and life outside work.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> How to distinguish your actual goals from conventional success, prestige, family expectations, income pressure, achievement culture, and "more, more, more."

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Why a sustainable job may matter more than a prestigious job.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Questions to ask about career fit:

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Will I have energy after work?

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Can I work at a pace that fits my brain?

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Do I have autonomy?

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Is there meaning behind the work?

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Is the environment tolerable?

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Can I build a contented life around this role?

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Time blindness: struggling to estimate time, track time passing, plan ahead, understand duration, or accurately predict how long something will take.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Why always arriving 15–30 minutes early can actually be a coping strategy for time blindness.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Visual time tools: analog clocks, visual timers, color-based timers, countdowns, routines, and external time cues.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Biological time versus clock time: working around hunger, fatigue, energy, interest, and internal rhythm rather than only arbitrary clock expectations.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Strategic avoidance: avoiding emails, bank accounts, grading, paperwork, difficult conversations, medical appointments, and other emotionally threatening tasks.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> How to tell the difference between avoiding something because it is boring and avoiding it because it triggers shame, rejection sensitivity, fear, guilt, or past negative experiences.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Why scheduling work and scheduling fun can reduce guilt and make rest more restorative.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Sensory regulation for ADHD adults: movement, fidgeting, cardiovascular exercise, music, novelty, physical activity, stimulation, and intentional sensory input.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Why fidgeting may support focus and retention.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Why ADHD adults may need stimulation to regulate rather than needing only quiet rest.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Why exercise can help reduce anxiety and improve executive functioning.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Body doubling as adult parallel play: working near another person, even on different tasks, to support activation, accountability, and focus.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> What supportive relationships with ADHD adults can look like: curiosity, humor, realistic time expectations, reminders, acceptance, communication, and not taking every interruption personally.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Why ADHD interruptions can be about working memory and connection rather than disrespect.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> How to communicate when interruptions hurt: name the impact without assuming malicious intent.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Why neurodivergence should not become a moral failure or an excuse.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> How to own your needs while also accepting responsibility for the systems, supports, and strategies that help you participate in relationships and daily life.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Why newly diagnosed ADHD adults should begin with reflection instead of immediately redesigning their entire lives.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> The importance of looking back at your history with curiosity: school, relationships, work, childhood feedback, academic shifts, anxiety, depression, burnout, and patterns of self-blame.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Self-compassion versus self-esteem: why worth should not depend on achievement, success, being "good enough," or proving yourself.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Why you should treat yourself as you would treat a good friend who is struggling.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Parenting neurodivergent children while neurodivergent yourself: dividing responsibilities based on actual strengths, supporting your own sensory needs, preventing overload, and asking for help.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Educational advocacy: why parents should not wait until the wheels fall off to ask for evaluation, testing, accommodations, support, or learning-difference screening.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Why academic decline, school refusal, homework meltdowns, sudden dislike of school, reading avoidance, math distress, writing avoidance, and increased anxiety can all be useful signs that more support is needed.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> How to include young people in IEP, 504, accommodation, and advocacy conversations without making them feel broken or different.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> How to frame supports positively: "Your brain needs this," "This helps you learn," and "You deserve tools that make school workable."

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Why families can laugh about ADHD chaos without becoming mocking, minimizing, or shame-based.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Marvie's books: a picture book about ADHD and anxiety, plus a therapeutic fantasy novel exploring productive thoughts, perfectionism, trauma, ADHD, learning differences, depression, friendship, and self-understanding.paste.txt

About the Guest
Marvie Corbett is a clinical therapist, social worker, author, parent of three, and ADHD adult based in the DC/Virginia area. She works with neurodivergent children, adolescents, adults, couples, and families around ADHD, anxiety, depression, executive functioning, learning differences, parent coaching, educational advocacy, relationships, and self-understanding.paste.txt
Marvie serves as one of the directors at Rebecca Resnick and Associates, where she supports group programming and educational advocacy. Her work focuses on helping people understand their own cognitive and emotional patterns, reduce shame, build practical strategies, and develop language for needs that may have gone unnamed for years.paste.txt
She is also the creator of Marveling Therapeutic Tools, where she shares therapeutic and educational resources, including books for children, parents, and families navigating ADHD, anxiety, perfectionism, trauma, learning differences, depression, and self-compassion.paste.txt
Find Marvie through resnickpsychology.com and marvelingtherapeutictools.com. Her books are also available through Amazon and Barnes & Noble.paste.txt
Key Takeaways
p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> ADHD is not laziness. Executive function affects task initiation, sustained focus, organization, working memory, emotional regulation, impulse control, and follow-through.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Bright children may compensate through intelligence, anxiety, perfectionism, people-pleasing, and extreme effort until executive-function demands become too high.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Girls are often identified first as anxious or depressed while ADHD and learning differences go unnoticed.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> A child who suddenly hates school, melts down over homework, avoids reading, struggles with math, or becomes more anxious may need more support—not more criticism.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Anxiety can become an executive-function strategy by creating urgency, but cortisol-driven productivity is not sustainable.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Neurodivergent people do not need to become good at every weakness. They need systems, support, delegation, accommodations, trade-offs, and opportunities to use their strengths.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Time blindness can look like chronic lateness, but it can also look like always being excessively early to avoid the risk of lateness.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> A supportive relationship with an ADHD person includes communication, curiosity, humor, realistic expectations, and understanding that interruptions or tangents are not always disrespect.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Self-compassion is more sustainable than self-esteem built on performance.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Parents of neurodivergent kids need to support their own regulation, sensory needs, executive-function limits, and overload patterns too.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Educational advocacy works best when parents notice early signs, document concerns, ask questions, seek evaluation, and include children in understanding their supports.

What if one of the most effective ways to support a neurodivergent child is not starting with the child at all?
What if it starts with the adult learning to regulate themselves first?
In this episode of Adulting with Autism, I talk with fellow occupational therapist Colleen about self-regulation, co-regulation, sensory processing, meltdowns, shutdowns, boundaries, parent burnout, repair conversations, and helping neurodivergent children build confidence without being punished for nervous-system responses.paste.txt
Colleen shares why every behavior is communication, why meltdowns are not manipulation, why shutdowns can be missed because they are quieter, and why "defiance" is often a poor explanation for what is actually happening.
We also talk about the difference between being firm and being harsh, being flexible and being permissive, holding a boundary and dismissing a feeling, and helping your child develop independence without rescuing them from every hard moment.
This episode is for parents, caregivers, neurodivergent adults, occupational therapists, educators, and anyone who has ever thought:
"I know what I should do, but I am overstimulated, dysregulated, and my kid just pushed every button I have."
In This Episode, We Cover
p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Who Colleen is: pediatric occupational therapist, self-regulation specialist, parent educator, creator of Growing Butterflies OT, and founder of Creations With Colleen.paste.txt

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Why she moved to California—and why good weather was part of the decision.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> The guiding question behind her work: "What if the most effective way to support your child is to regulate yourself first?"paste.txt

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> How Colleen's pediatric OT work led her to focus on supporting adults and parents before expecting them to co-regulate a child.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Self-regulation in ordinary language: feeling as okay as possible while navigating the hard, uncomfortable, stressful, overwhelming, or unexpected parts of life.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Why emotional regulation is not about never having feelings—it is about understanding feelings, noticing them, and choosing what to do next.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> The difference between self-regulation and co-regulation.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Self-regulation: how you care for yourself, understand your body, identify your needs, and move through difficult moments.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Co-regulation: how your regulated nervous system influences and supports another person's nervous system.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Sensory processing and self-regulation: why hunger, fatigue, transitions, sounds, smells, light, food textures, social demands, and sensory overload can affect behavior.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Why smell sensitivity, noise sensitivity, light sensitivity, food aversions, movement needs, and sensory preferences can all affect emotional regulation.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Why some people need more intentional sensory support to feel calm, safe, alert, focused, or organized.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Why "defiance" may be a misleading label for a child who is overwhelmed, dysregulated, lacking a skill, anxious, sensory overloaded, confused, or feeling powerless.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Why some children born after COVID may show more intense preferences, stronger opinions, and less willingness to simply "go with the flow."

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> How to honor a child's voice while also accepting that some tasks are non-negotiable.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> The balance between accommodating children and helping them learn to do hard things.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Why a child's meltdown is communication—not proof of bad intentions.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> What meltdowns may communicate: overwhelm, lack of control, sensory overload, frustration, fear, perceived unfairness, exhaustion, lack of communication tools, or a nervous system that has reached capacity.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Why children often have their biggest meltdowns with parents or caregivers because they feel safest there.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Why shutdowns are just as important as meltdowns, even when they are quieter and easier to miss.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Shutdown signs: becoming quiet, withdrawing, disengaging, appearing to "give up," becoming less verbal, avoiding interaction, zoning out, or losing access to previously available skills.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Why confidence-building can protect against shutdown by helping children feel capable of working through difficult moments.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Common adult reactions that accidentally increase dysregulation: saying no without explanation, piling on language, arguing, escalating, demanding compliance in the heat of the moment, or ignoring a child's need for control.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Why children may interpret "no" as permanent unless adults clearly explain the boundary and offer future options.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Effective co-regulation: adults learning their own triggers, sensory needs, anxiety patterns, exhaustion signals, and capacity limits.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Why many adults were never taught emotional regulation in childhood and are now expected to teach it to their children.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Colleen's coffee story: missing a needed second cup of coffee before a demanding preschool observation and then realizing how quickly neglecting her own needs affected her capacity.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Why taking care of yourself first is not selfish—it allows you to show up with more patience, discernment, flexibility, and emotional room for others.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Boundaries: the difference between harshness, permissiveness, overgiving, self-abandonment, loving limits, and firm guidance.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Why setting boundaries is especially difficult when parents are tired, triggered, guilty, people-pleasing, sensory overloaded, or afraid of upsetting their children.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Why feelings are always valid, but not every behavior is okay.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> A simple core message: "You are allowed to feel angry. You are not allowed to hurt someone because you are angry."

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> How to prepare for hard moments before they happen rather than trying to teach new skills at the peak of a meltdown.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Why a dysregulated child is not ready for a long lesson, reasoning, negotiation, or behavior analysis.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Why co-regulation with autistic and ADHD teens may look like space, quiet presence, patience, offering options, respecting no-touch preferences, and waiting for communication in its own form.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Why nonverbal, minimally speaking, or differently communicating children are still communicating constantly through behavior, facial expression, movement, proximity, withdrawal, sensory seeking, and choices.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> How to create sensory-supportive spaces without spending huge amounts of money on specialized equipment.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Low-cost sensory supports: noise-canceling headphones, spinning chairs, therapy balls, trampolines, movement breaks, jumping, safe pressure, music, massage, fidgets, household items, weighted blankets, and sensory routines.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Why sensory support does not need to come from expensive products with the word "sensory" printed on the label.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Why older kids, teens, and adults should be taught to identify their own sensory needs instead of relying on others to identify them forever.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Why self-awareness is one of the most valuable long-term OT goals.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> What power struggles often communicate: a child needs more autonomy, clarity, predictability, connection, choices, or emotional support.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Why offering more small choices throughout the day can reduce later power struggles.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Examples of small choices: red cup or blue cup, shower before or after dinner, homework before or after snack, which shirt, which activity, which order.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Inner authority: building trust in your own ability to decide whether a strategy is working, whether it needs more time, or whether it is not the right fit for your family.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Why families need to listen to advice without losing their own discernment.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Repair after conflict: why it is not enough to just move on after a big feeling moment.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> When to repair: after everyone has settled, not at the peak of distress.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> A repair script: name what happened, acknowledge feelings, identify the behavior, hold the boundary, ask for the child's perspective, and make a plan for next time.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Why "I'm sorry" alone may not feel meaningful to children without explanation, accountability, connection, and changed behavior.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> How adult children can work toward repair with parents even if they did not grow up in regulation-focused homes.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Why adult children today are more willing to name past harm, ask hard questions, and refuse to pretend childhood experiences were okay when they were not.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Why repair requires self-reflection, honest communication, accountability, and willingness from both people.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Parenting while neurodivergent: sensory sensitivities, trauma, burnout, emotional overwhelm, strong reactions, masking, and the additional pressure of raising a neurodivergent child.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Why neurodivergence includes strengths: creativity, perception, deep interests, connection-making, unique problem-solving, honesty, building, creating, and understanding what others miss.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Why neurodivergent parents deserve self-acceptance instead of pressure to appear more neurotypical.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Colleen's My Feelings Workbook and its body-awareness activities for children and families.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> A simple family regulation practice: pause, breathe, scan your body, and identify how you feel physically—strong, tired, hungry, dreamy, energized, overwhelmed, or needing movement.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Why helping children name body sensations can make emotions more understandable and manageable.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Where to find Colleen's parenting book, children's workbook, educational resources, OT content, courses, and social media.paste.txt

About the Guest
Colleen is a pediatric occupational therapist based in California. She specializes in self-regulation, big feelings, sensory processing, transitions, co-regulation, parent support, positive boundaries, and helping children develop emotional awareness and confidence.paste.txt
Through her practice, resources, courses, books, and online content, Colleen helps families understand that behavior is communication. Her approach combines OT-informed sensory strategies, emotional regulation, nervous-system support, parent self-awareness, clear boundaries, repair, and compassionate guidance.paste.txt
She is the creator of Growing Butterflies OT and Creations With Colleen. Her resources include How to Lovingly Set a Firm Boundary, the My Feelings Workbook, parent education tools, sensory supports, and educational materials for children and families.paste.txt
Find Colleen at growingbutterfliesot.com, on Instagram at @growingbutterfliesot, and at creationswithcolleen.com.
Key Takeaways
p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Self-regulation is not about never getting upset. It is about understanding what you feel, what your body needs, and how to navigate difficult moments.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Co-regulation starts with the adult. Children cannot borrow calm from someone whose nervous system is already on fire.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Meltdowns, shutdowns, defiance, avoidance, anger, and power struggles are often forms of communication—not evidence of bad intentions.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> A child can be overwhelmed and still need boundaries. Feelings are valid; harmful behavior is not automatically acceptable.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> You do not teach a new regulation skill at the peak of a meltdown. First reduce stimulation, maintain safety, offer space, and wait for everyone to settle.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Small choices throughout the day can reduce later power struggles because children feel more autonomy and predictability.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Sensory support does not have to be expensive. Movement, fidgets, quiet, headphones, trampolines, spinning, pressure, music, therapy balls, and household items can all help.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Parents who ignore their own needs are more likely to become depleted, reactive, resentful, and less able to co-regulate.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Boundaries are not harsh when they are delivered with clarity, calm, consistency, and respect.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Repair is one of the most important parent-child skills: name what happened, acknowledge feelings, maintain the boundary, and plan for next time.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> Neurodivergent adults and parents deserve to understand their own sensory needs, nervous-system capacity, trauma patterns, and strengths.

p]:pt-0 [&>p]:mb-2 [&>p]:my-0"> The goal is not to make every child look neurotypical. The goal is to help them understand themselves, feel supported, and develop the skills they need for their own life.