Club Sandwich

A will is only useful when you're dead, but the rest of the paperwork is critical long before that. This week's guest lives and breathes it for a living.
Marie Brownell, Director of Estate Planning and Administration at NSW Trustee and Guardian, joins Sarah Macdonald to explain what a power of attorney, an enduring power of attorney, an enduring guardianship and a will each actually do, who needs one, and why doing them together in one sitting makes life easier later.
JOIN THE CLUB: Visit https://clubsandwich.community to join the conversation.
SEND US YOUR QUESTION: hello@clubsandwich.community
In this episode:
This Week's Hack: Getting a will, power of attorney and enduring guardianship done properly doesn't have to cost much, a few hundred dollars through a public trustee, and it's free if your mum or dad is on a full pension. Do all three documents together in one sitting if you can.
Send this to: whoever in your family keeps meaning to "get around to" their will, and anyone who's ever been an executor and found out how messy it can get.
A moment that stays: mid-recording, Sarah realised live on air that she isn't sure her own mum's paperwork is complete, she thinks she has power of attorney but not enduring guardianship. Marie's reply: "you need the whole shebang."
Meet the regular Clubbers:
Melissa Reader — CEO of Vera and expert on Australia's ageing crisis.
Jo Lamble — Clinical psychologist specialising in guilt and family dynamics.
Dr Ginni Mansberg — GP and women's health advocate.
Dr Stephanie Ward — Geriatrician helping you understand the ageing brain.
Kerry Milligan — Gogglebox star bringing humour and honesty.
About Marie Brownell: Director of Estate Planning and Administration at NSW Trustee and Guardian, specialising in wills, powers of attorney and enduring guardianship.
Put The Kettle On, Vera's free conversation guide: the five questions worth asking your ageing mum or dad, at putthekettleon.com.au.
Our FACES campaign: Last year, 4,812 older Australians died waiting for the aged care they'd already been approved for, about 13 a day. Vera started FACES to count the people waiting, and count the ones we lose, every quarter, published. If you're sitting in that wait with your mum or dad right now, add your name at vera.guide/faces.
This episode was supported by Australian Unity, home health and care services: australianunity.com.au/clubsandwich.
With thanks to NSW Trustee and Guardian. Search NSW Trustee and Guardian, or call 1300 10 20 30.
Vera is your candid companion as you care for an ageing parent. Have a look at https://vera.guide.

Credits:
Sarah Macdonald – Host + Executive Producer
Melissa Reader – Commissioning Editor, Executive Producer + Clubber
Justin McArthur – Executive Producer + Editor, for P. Zinner Podcasts (https://pzinner.com.au)
Thanks and kudos to Sean Wayland for our theme music Club Sandwich — hear more at https://seanwayland.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Melissa Reader on the launch of Vera's new FACES campaign.

FACES (Families for Aged Care Equity and Support) is a family-led campaign asking for one honest count of the number of people waiting for their aged care funding and the people who die while they're waiting. Add your name at vera.guide/faces.

Ageing parents? You've got them. We've got you.
Put The Kettle On — Vera's free conversation guide: the five questions worth asking your ageing mum or dad, at putthekettleon.com.au
This episode was supported by Australian Unity, home health and care services — australianunity.com.au/clubsandwich.
With thanks to NSW Trustee and Guardian — search NSW Trustee and Guardian, or call 1300 10 20 30.
Vera is your candid companion as you care for an ageing parent. Have a look at https://vera.guide.

Credits:
Sarah Macdonald – Host + Executive Producer
Melissa Reader – Commissioning Editor, Executive Producer + Clubber
Justin McArthur – Executive Producer + Editor, for P. Zinner Podcasts (https://pzinner.com.au)
Thanks and kudos to Sean Wayland for our theme music Club Sandwich — hear more at https://seanwayland.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Your kid finished school years ago. They're 22, or 27, or 33. So why are you still doing their washing? Clinical psychologist Jo Lamble is in the chair for the layer of the sandwich generation nobody names.
Content note: this is a lighter, funnier episode than most, although the last few minutes touch briefly on ageing parents and visiting a grandparent in aged care. For support: Relationships Australia 1300 364 277 (relationships.org.au). Carer Gateway 1800 422 737. Lifeline 13 11 14, 24/7.
JOIN THE CLUB: Visit https://clubsandwich.community to join the conversation.
SEND US YOUR QUESTION: hello@clubsandwich.community
In this episode:
The Conversation: Clinical psychologist and regular Clubber Jo Lamble joins Sarah Macdonald to talk about adult children still living at home, or boomeranging back — why cushioning them stops working the moment they finish school, the anxiety of waiting up at night (and why earplugs actually help), the four-layer club sandwich of caring for an ageing parent, yourself, adult kids and grandkids all at once, and why "we've got to advertise adulthood" instead of just surviving it.
This Week's Hack: Stop parenting, start being flatmates. Call a house meeting. Announce it, don't slide it in sideways. Agree on the basics a good flatmate keeps: give each other space, split the chores, don't comment on clothes or friends, and raise problems on the spot instead of storing them up for three months and exploding.
Send this to: whoever is still doing their 25-year-old's washing, or anyone who feels like a nag for asking their adult kid to do their own.
A moment that stays: Jo's line for anyone who thinks it's "not fair" to want a life outside caregiving — some young adults are choosing not to have kids because they watched their own mum run herself ragged and never once look like she was enjoying it. We've got to advertise adulthood.
Meet the regular Clubbers:
Melissa Reader — CEO of Vera and expert on Australia's ageing crisis.
Jo Lamble — Clinical psychologist specialising in guilt and family dynamics.
Dr Ginni Mansberg — GP and women's health advocate.
Dr Stephanie Ward — Geriatrician helping you understand the ageing brain.
Kerry Milligan — Gogglebox star bringing humour and honesty.
About Jo Lamble: Clinical psychologist, author and a regular Clubber on the show, specialising in family dynamics, guilt and boundaries.
Put The Kettle On — Vera's free conversation guide: the five questions worth asking your ageing mum or dad, at putthekettleon.com.au
This episode was supported by Australian Unity, home health and care services — australianunity.com.au/clubsandwich.
With thanks to NSW Trustee and Guardian — search NSW Trustee and Guardian, or call 1300 10 20 30.
Vera is your candid companion as you care for an ageing parent. Have a look at https://vera.guide.

Credits:
Sarah Macdonald – Host + Executive Producer
Melissa Reader – Commissioning Editor, Executive Producer + Clubber
Justin McArthur – Executive Producer + Editor, for P. Zinner Podcasts (https://pzinner.com.au)
Thanks and kudos to Sean Wayland for our theme music Club Sandwich — hear more at https://seanwayland.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What do you do when your kids are still little and your parents are already old? The queen of common sense, Maggie Dent, is in the chair for the double squeeze.
Content note: this episode includes honest conversations about death and dying, children's grief, and caring for a parent with dementia. Be gentle with yourself while you listen. For support: National Dementia Helpline 1800 100 500 (24/7). Kids Helpline 1800 55 1800 (kidshelpline.com.au). Griefline 1300 845 745 (griefline.org.au). Carer Gateway 1800 422 737. Lifeline 13 11 14, 24/7.
JOIN THE CLUB: Visit https://clubsandwich.community to join the conversation.
SEND US YOUR QUESTION: hello@clubsandwich.community
In this episode:
The Conversation: Beloved parenting author and educator Maggie Dent joins Sarah Macdonald for young kids and old parents at once — why this generation got the hardest version (later babies, smaller families, COVID's developmental hangover); what's really underneath a tantrum (theirs and yours, in the middle of Coles); burnt chop syndrome and why your 90 minutes goes in the diary first; giving little kids real agency in Grandpa's care; why children need the true words for death; and how to open the big conversations with teenagers — side by side, Milo in hand.

This Week's Hack: Put your 90 minutes in the diary first. Sit down with your co-parent and ask what each of you needs for an hour and a half a week — and diary it before the kids' activities. You can't pour from an empty cup, and stop taking the burnt chop.

Send this to: a friend raising young kids while caring for ageing parents, or any parent dreading the "where's Grandma?" conversation.

A moment that stays: Maggie's advice for a four-year-old whose grandpa has dementia — teach her to ask for what she needs: "Can I have two hugs? I think it's a two-hug day today."
Meet the regular Clubbers:
Melissa Reader — CEO of Vera and expert on Australia's ageing crisis.
Jo Lamble — Clinical psychologist specialising in guilt and family dynamics.
Dr Ginni Mansberg — GP and women's health advocate.
Dr Stephanie Ward — Geriatrician helping you understand the ageing brain.
Kerry Milligan — Gogglebox star bringing humour and honesty.
About Maggie Dent: One of Australia's most trusted parenting authors and educators — the "queen of common sense". Podcaster, former teacher and counsellor, with years working in palliative care and more than 250 funerals behind her. Free resources, including book lists for talking with kids about death, dying and divorce, at maggiedent.com.
Put The Kettle On — Vera's free conversation guide: the five questions worth asking your ageing mum or dad, at putthekettleon.com.au
This episode was supported by Australian Unity, home health and care services — australianunity.com.au/clubsandwich. With thanks to NSW Trustee and Guardian — search NSW Trustee and Guardian, or call 1300 10 20 30.
Vera is your candid companion as you care for an ageing parent. Have a look at https://vera.guide.

Credits:
Sarah Macdonald – Host + Executive Producer
Melissa Reader – Commissioning Editor, Executive Producer + Clubber
Justin McArthur – Executive Producer + Editor, for P. Zinner Podcasts (https://pzinner.com.au)
Thanks and kudos to Sean Wayland for our theme music Club Sandwich — hear more at https://seanwayland.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What happens when your marriage ends in the exact season your parent needs you most? Katie Noonan knows, and this week, she tells us how you start again in the middle of everything.
Content note: this episode discusses separation and divorce, grief and the death of a parent. Be gentle with yourself while you listen. For support: Relationships Australia 1300 364 277 (relationships.org.au) — counselling and separation support. Family Relationship Advice Line 1800 050 321. Griefline 1300 845 745 (griefline.org.au). Lifeline 13 11 14, 24/7.
JOIN THE CLUB: Visit https://clubsandwich.community to join the conversation.
SEND US YOUR QUESTION: hello@clubsandwich.community
In this episode:
The Conversation: Five-time ARIA Award winner Katie Noonan joins Sarah Macdonald for divorce in the sandwich years – learning her 26-year marriage was over from a lawyer's letter, seven months after losing her beloved dad; her 81-year-old mum, his full-time carer for 14 years, asking "who am I now?"; two suddenly single women caring for each other; the coven of girlfriends holding her up; getting sober; and turning all of it into her new album, Alone But All One.
This Week's Hack: Build your coven before you need it. Katie actively organises hers – ten women, monthly ladies dinners, book club, the cheap local cinema. Don't wait for community to find you in a crisis. Put the recurring date in the diary now.
Send this to: anyone navigating a separation while caring for ageing parents, or the friend quietly holding it all together.
A moment that stays: "I used to be one of four on a Medicare card, now I've got a solo Medicare card, and they ask me, 'Who's your next of kin?' And I'm like, 'Oh, I don't really have one anymore.'"
Meet the regular Clubbers:
Melissa Reader — CEO of Vera and expert on Australia's ageing crisis.
Jo Lamble — Clinical psychologist specialising in guilt and family dynamics.
Dr Ginni Mansberg — GP and women's health advocate.
Dr Stephanie Ward — Geriatrician helping you understand the ageing brain.
Kerry Milligan — Gogglebox star bringing humour and honesty.
About Katie Noonan: Five-time ARIA award-winning singer, songwriter and producer — the voice of george and Elixir, with 30 studio albums across 30 years. Her new album Alone But All One is out now, written in the wake of her father's death and the end of her 26-year marriage, and featuring her first songwriting collaboration with Trent Dalton. Tour dates at katienoonan.com.au.
Music from Katie Noonan's album Alone But All One appears in this episode, with her kind permission.
Put The Kettle On — Vera's free conversation guide: the five questions worth asking your ageing mum or dad, at putthekettleon.com.au
This episode was supported by Australian Unity, home health and care services — australianunity.com.au/clubsandwich. With thanks to NSW Trustee and Guardian — search NSW Trustee and Guardian, or call 1300 10 20 30.
Vera is your candid companion as you care for an ageing parent. Have a look at https://vera.guide.

Credits:
Sarah Macdonald – Host + Executive Producer
Melissa Reader – Commissioning Editor, Executive Producer + Clubber
Justin McArthur – Executive Producer + Editor, for P. Zinner Podcasts (https://pzinner.com.au)
Thanks and kudos to Sean Wayland for our theme music Club Sandwich — hear more at https://seanwayland.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.