Humans, being. with Lael Stone

There's a strange kind of comfort in staying exactly where you are – even when that is hurting you. In this episode, I’m talking with clinical psychologist Dr Emily Musgrove, and we discuss why the familiar feels safe even when it isn't, and what it actually takes to find our way back to ourselves.
An imprint I have - from watching the busy women in my family – was that if you're not doing three things at once, you're lazy. That's the thread Emily and I pulled on together. We both grew up watching women just go, go, go – and then spent years unravelling what that cost us. Emily talks about returning from holiday and instantly flipping into doing mode. I talk about the moment I realised my anxiety was actually working for me - keeping me safe from being seen.
Her book Unstuck grew from that reckoning. We talk about secondary gains (the hidden payoff in staying the same), the concept of the near enemy of kindness, what perimenopause might really be releasing in us as women, and the childhood imprints that shape who we become – and who we pass that on to.
We explore:
How to start building compassion when “love yourself” feels like too big a leap - and why Emily starts with the inner critic, not against it
The dinner table analogy that reframes your relationship with your own harsh inner voice
Why empathy and compassion aren’t the same thing - and which one protects people who hold space for others from burning out
Why we unconsciously stay in painful patterns – and the concept of secondary gains that explains more than we’d like to admit
The “near enemy” of kindness - how self-sacrifice quietly masquerades as a virtue
[Recorded Remotely October 2025]
About Dr Emily Musgrove:
Dr Emily Musgrove is a clinical psychologist based in Perth with over a decade of experience helping people find their way back to themselves. She is the beloved resident psychologist on The Imperfects Podcast - where she draws on real conversations to offer evidence-based strategies people can actually use. Her book, Unstuck: A Guide to Finding Your Way Forward to the Life You Want to Live, was released in May 2025.
Connect with Emily:
Website: dremilymusgrove.com
Instagram: @dremilymusgrove
Book: Unstuck (available in print, ebook and audio)

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Connect with Humans, being™:
Web: humansbeing.au
Instagram: @humansbeingwithlaelstone
Facebook: @humansbeingwithlaelstone
TikTok: @humansbeingwithlaelstone
YouTube: @humansbeingwithlaelstone

Humans, being™ is produced on the lands of the Bunurong and Wadawurrung people. We pay respect to their unique and diverse cultures and to elders past, present and future.

Libby Trickett surfaced from the pool at the Beijing Olympics, saw the number one next to her name, and waited for the feeling of being enough. It didn't come.
Libby is mum to five children, including baby Archie, who was snuggled on her chest throughout our entire conversation. She opens up about postnatal depression after her first daughter, Poppy, about the Father wound that quietly drove her to the pool every single day, and about the moment she realised that winning gold wasn't going to make her whole. We also explore her passionate advocacy for keeping girls in sport.
We explore:
The relentlessness of early motherhood, and why admitting it's boring sometimes is actually the most honest thing you can say
What Libby's postnatal depression cracked open in her - and why she now sees it as one of the most important experiences of her life
The Beijing gold medal, and the moment Libby realised that winning the thing she'd wanted her whole life, still left a void
Libby's advocacy work around girls and sport: why participation drops off and what we can do about it
The only thing that matters in parenting - and why it's not organic food, sleep training, or getting the birth story "right"
What I keep coming back to, sitting with this conversation, is Libby saying: "I was always enough." Seven Olympic medals, world records, five children - and still, that simple truth was the hardest thing to find. What I love about Libby is that she's doing the work. She's right in it. And she's raising five little humans to know their enoughness from the start. To me, that's the most important gold medal of all.
[Recorded Remotely October 2025]
About Libby Trickett:
Libby Trickett is a seven-time Olympic medallist with four gold medals who represented Australia at three consecutive Olympic Games and held world records in the 100m freestyle throughout her career. She is a mental health advocate, author of the memoir Beneath the Surface, and a fierce advocate for keeping girls in sport. She lives with her husband, former swimmer Luke Trickett, and their five children.
Connect with Libby:
Instagram: @libby_trickett
Podcast: Play Well series - 8 Eps on Sportish

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Connect with Humans, being™:
Web: humansbeing.au
Instagram: @humansbeingwithlaelstone
Facebook: @humansbeingwithlaelstone
TikTok: @humansbeingwithlaelstone
YouTube: @humansbeingwithlaelstone

Humans, being™ is produced on the lands of the Bunurong and Wadawurrung people. We pay respect to their unique and diverse cultures and to elders past, present and future.

There are conversations that feel like they're about one thing, but they're actually about something else entirely. This one starts with laughter… and ends up in a tender place.
Ryan Shelton is such an excellent human. He's one third of The Imperfects alongside Hugh and Josh van Cuylenburg, and a face on Australian screens for the better part of two decades, from Rove to Hamish & Andy. I knew going into this chat that it'd be warm and funny and real.
We talk about what it costs to keep seeking approval, the psychology behind why so many of us are still waiting for someone to say "it's your turn now," and the surprising power of small, silly, seemingly pointless things. Ryan's beautiful quote - delivered with perfect comic timing and complete sincerity - might be my favourite callout from the whole season so far: "Silliness is worth taking seriously."
We explore:
The fear that stops you putting creative work into the world - and what actually happens when you finally do it anyway
"Juvenile condition" - the Adlerian psychology concept that explains why so many adults are still waiting for permission to start their own lives
Laughter as a nervous system response - and why it shows up in the strangest, most inconvenient moments
The "three-sided column" from The Courage to Be Happy - and how it changes who you think is responsible for your life
Why silliness might be the most underrated form of connection and healing we have right now
All the fear, the procrastination, the need for approval. The creativity, the silliness, the courage it takes to put something out there, even when you're scared. Ryan reminded me to take that a lot more seriously - and to laugh a lot more while I'm doing it.
[Recorded January 2026]
About Ryan Shelton:
Ryan Shelton is one of Australia's most beloved comedians and writers. After two decades in Australian television - from Rove Live to co-writing Chris Lilley's We Can Be Heroes and producing Hamish & Andy's The Gap Year, True Story, and Perfect Holiday - he's now one third of The Imperfects, Australia's leading mental health podcast, alongside Hugh and Josh van Cuylenburg. In late 2025, he opened his debut solo art exhibition in Fitzroy: All This Work, Just For This. He takes silliness very, very seriously.
Connect with Ryan:
Instagram: @ryansheltonography
Podcast: The Imperfects Podcast

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Connect with Humans, being™:
Web: humansbeing.au
Instagram: @humansbeingwithlaelstone
Facebook: @humansbeingwithlaelstone
TikTok: @humansbeingwithlaelstone
YouTube: @humansbeingwithlaelstone

Humans, being™ is produced on the lands of the Bunurong and Wadawurrung people. We pay respect to their unique and diverse cultures and to elders past, present and future.

I grew up with Ali Daddo on my wall. And like so many of us, I looked at that image and thought - that's it. That's what it means to arrive. What I didn't know - what none of us knew - was that even being the ‘it’ girl comes with challenges.
This beautiful conversation really opens up about the pressures we feel as a woman, from the tween and teen years, into motherhood and menopause. We explore Ali's "standing in front of a 747 jet engine" image of society's pressure not to age, and what women actually find on the other side of all that noise.
We also get deep about long-term love - Esther Perel's three marriages to the same person, (what it takes to reinvent in the third one), and what "making art from a marriage" actually looks like in practice.
We explore:
The "currency" of appearance: what we inherit, what it costs us, and what happens when the market changes as we age
The grandmother whale theory: why Ali believes women stop being fertile because they're meant to lead
Reinventing long-term love post-menopause
Aviiana, the wellness platform Ali co-founded with Mary Doube, and the whole vision to help women thrive with confidence
What it feels like to finally be "out of the game you never asked to be in" - and why that might be the most liberating thing that's ever happened to us
Ali is a little further down this path than me and I am so grateful to have her shining a light from up ahead. What she's showing me is that the other side isn't smaller. It's more. More voice. More space. More of yourself. 💛
[Recorded Remotely November 2025]
About Ali Daddo:
Ali Daddo began her career as one of Australia's most recognisable models and presenters before spending 25 years in the United States, where she worked as a birth assistant and Steiner early childhood educator. She's the author of Queen Menopause: Finding Your Majesty in the Mayhem, co-host of ‘The Heart of It’ podcast with hubby Cameron Daddo, co-founder of the women's wellness platform Aviiana, and host of the Foxtel LifeStyle wellness series, Gen Well.
Connect with Ali:
Website: aviiana.com.au
Instagram: @alidaddo
Podcast: The Heart of It

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Connect with Humans, being™:
Web: humansbeing.au
Instagram: @humansbeingwithlaelstone
Facebook: @humansbeingwithlaelstone
TikTok: @humansbeingwithlaelstone
YouTube: @humansbeingwithlaelstone

Humans, being™ is produced on the lands of the Bunurong and Wadawurrung people. We pay respect to their unique and diverse cultures and to elders past, present and future.

What if the story you tell about your body isn’t really yours to begin with?
In this warm, honest, and beautifully grounded conversation, I sit down with Steph Claire Smith – co-founder of KIC, model, podcaster, and mum – to explore the imprints that shape how we see ourselves, and what it takes to slowly, gently, rewrite them.
Steph grew up in the public eye at a time when the wellness world had a very particular idea of what health was supposed to look like. We talk about what it meant to internalise that, how it showed up in her relationship with food and her body, and the long, non-linear journey towards actually feeling at home in herself.
We also talk about motherhood, the pressure of building a business in the health and fitness space while doing your own inner work, and why Steph believes the most powerful thing she can do for her daughter is to keep going on her own healing journey.
We explore:
Growing up in the public eye – and what that does to a young woman’s sense of self
The shift from performing wellness to actually living it
Building KIC from the inside out – and why the mission has always been bigger than fitness
Motherhood as a mirror: what Steph sees in herself through her children
The ongoing, imperfect work of breaking old patterns
What stayed with me after this conversation was Steph’s honesty about navigating the public eye and staying true to yourself.
[Recorded January 2026]
About Steph Claire Smith:
Steph Claire Smith is the co-founder of KIC, a leading Australian health and wellness app focused on movement, mindfulness and nourishing food. A model, podcaster and mum, Steph has been open about her own journey with body image and mental health, and uses her platform to champion a more balanced, compassionate approach to wellbeing.
Connect with Steph:
Instagram: @stephclairesmith
KICApp: kicwellness.com
Use the code humansbeing for one month free when you sign up to the KICApp via the above website on a monthly subscription. Available for new and returning users only.

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Connect with Humans, being™:
Web: humansbeing.au
Instagram: @humansbeingwithlaelstone
Facebook: @humansbeingwithlaelstone
TikTok: @humansbeingwithlaelstone
YouTube: @humansbeingwithlaelstone

Humans, being™ is produced on the lands of the Bunurong and Wadawurrung people. We pay respect to their unique and diverse cultures and to elders past, present and future.