Liberating Motherhood

If you like this episode or this podcast, please consider heart-reacting, sharing, commenting, or leaving a positive online review. It helps the podcast continue to attract great guests!Motherhood is a cultural, political experience. But in many places, especially the United States, we pretend culture doesn’t exist, and that everything about motherhood is both inevitable and an individual problem. Abigail Leonard is an American journalist who, inspired by her own experiences living abroad in Tokyo, set out to explore how different cultures support (or don’t support) mothers, and how this influences outcomes for everyone. Abigail’s book highlights how cultural norms determine the bounds within which we mother. And while the social networks and community support women can access vary greatly from nation to nation, the profound impacts of patriarchy persist across cultures, making motherhood much harder than it needs to be. In this podcast, we talk about:  Similarities and differences between motherhood experiences in Japan, Kenya, Finland, and the United States.  The social structures that can make motherhood easier or more difficult.  How men’s refusal to participate equitably in parenting negatively affects women across cultures—and how social safety nets can either intensify or offset these negative effects.  The political role of motherhood, and how a culture of mother blame can destroy an entire society.  The rampant violence of life in the United States.  The long-term effects of parental leave on parent-child relationships.  You can find Abigail’s book, a reading list, and all books I recommend on the podcast, at the Liberating Motherhood Bookshop. About Abigail LeonardAbigail Leonard is an award-winning international reporter and the author of Four Mothers: An Intimate Journey through the First Year of Parenthood in Four Countries. It follows women in Japan, Kenya, Finland and the US during their first year as mothers, and was named an Amazon “Best nonfiction book of the year so far”, and a Sunday Times “Book of the week”. Abigail was previously based in Tokyo, where she was a frequent contributor to NPR and New York Times video... and where she had her own three children.Visit her website here, or find her on Instagram @AbigailLeonardAuthor.

“Everyone is impacted by racism.” — Sabia Wade We’re back! It’s now Season 3 of the Liberating Motherhood podcast. As promised, this season you’ll be getting an episode every single week. Please consider helping this podcast continue to grow by: heart-reacting on Substack, liking on your favorite platform, leaving a comment on social media, leaving a positive review on your favorite podcast platform, and sharing the podcast with friends. Your support can help the podcast continue to grow and bring on great guests. The American birthing system is in crisis, with women dying at higher rates now than they did a generation ago. Birth if often traumatic, leaving lasting physical and emotional injuries. While everyone who gives birth is touched by this system, thing are especially bad for Black women, who die at roughly four times the rate of white women. No amount of education or money can reduce this risk; racism and misogyny are the factors that matter.Sabia Wade argues that the birth crisis is inseparable from the larger crises our culture faces, and that collective liberation means birth liberation, too. I was so excited to get to talk to her. Here are a few of the topics we discuss:  The Prison Birth Project, prison birth, and the crises facing incarcerated women.  How racism erodes everyone’s humanity, including by divorcing white people from their own humanness.  The competing demands of accountability and inclusion, and how we build bigger, more powerful movements for liberation.  What activism means, and how we cultivate meaningful activism.  Racism in maternity care, the fact that the problem is getting worse, and what we need to do to stop this crisis.  The racist social norms that have steadily pushed Black midwives out of obstetric care.  The racist roots of modern obstetrics and gynecology.  Care is more important than profit—and why a for-profit system will never provide comprehensive care.  How racism limited Black people’s access to medical care, and how Black communities have responded with building their own systems of care. But now, for-profit medicine is seeking to commodify Black bodies and disrupt these community systems of care.  Harm is inevitable, which is why we all must work to be more accountable.  The defensiveness many obstetricians feel when confronted with the racist, misogynist reality of our birthing system.  You can find all of the books I reference on the podcast, as well as many lists of recommended books, at the Liberating Motherhood Bookshop. About Sabia WadeSabia Wade (she/they) is a Black, queer, multi-disciplinary reproductive justice advocate, entrepreneur, and thought leader. As the creator and CEO of Birthing Advocacy Doula Trainings and founder of For The Village, Inc., Sabia has built accessible pathways for community care workers and birth justice advocates across the country.With roots as a volunteer doula at the Prison Birth Project, Sabia’s work now spans curriculum design, organizational strategy, full-spectrum doula care, and executive coaching. They are also the author of Birthing Liberation: How Reproductive Justice Can Set Us Free, a groundbreaking exploration of bias, healing, and collective freedom in reproductive care.Beyond advocacy and education, Sabia leads Tend & Mend Healing Studio in Wilmington, NC, offering herbalism, spiritual care, mediumship, Reiki, death doula support, and human design sessions—bringing a holistic, liberatory approach to healing and leadership.Find Sabia at sabiawade.com. You can also follow her on Instagram or LinkedIn, buy her book here, visit Tend and Mend Healing Studio, learn more about Birthing Advocacy Doula Trainings, or support her nonprofit, which trains the next generation of liberation-focused doulas. https://www.sabiawade.com/Sabia also was generous enough to offer a discount code for Liberating Motherhood listeners: Use coupon 15off at Tend & Mend Studio: shopAnd for BADT programming: https://birthingadvocacy.thinkific.com/

I am so excited about this episode! Jane Ward is a brilliant queer feminist scholar who has written extensively about the harmful dynamics heterosexual relationships normalize. Her book, The Tragedy of Heterosexuality, has heavily influenced my own work, and I am so grateful to her. She’s working on a new book about parenting that we hit on a bit, but we mostly talk about what is going on in heterosexual relationships. Some of the topics we cover include:  Why maybe it’s not being queer that is difficult, but being straight. Perhaps rather than worrying about our queer children, we need to worry about straight kids.  The misery of heterosexual culture, and why queering relationships can make them better.  How heteronormative culture conceals the horrors of heterosexual relationships to reel women into these often-harmful romances.  The phenomenon where heterosexual marriage often puts women in a worse situation than they otherwise would have found themselves in.  The normalization of marital hatred, and how male homosociality influences everyone.  Why queer divorce rates indicate a healthier approach to relationships.  What it means to queer parenting practices, and how we can embrace a truly liberatory parenting ethic.  Parenting as a cultural experience rather than an individual one.  Quick scheduling note: For December, I’ll have a podcast every other week, in addition to the paid bonus at the end of the month. In January, I will be returning permanently to the new schedule of weekly podcasts. Season three will be out the first full week of January.  As always, please consider leaving a quick review and heart-reacting or sharing. It really helps a lot!  About Jane Ward Jane Ward is professor and chair of Feminist Studies at University of California Santa Barbara. She teaches and writes about gender and sexual cultures and has published on topics including the anti-gender movement, online misogyny, the marriage self-help industry, the ebb and flow of interest in lesbian feminism, the meaning of sex between straight-identified men, queer childhood and parenting, the corporatization of gay pride festivals, and the labor of producing gender. Ward is the author of multiple books, including The Tragedy of Heterosexuality, described by The New York Times Book Review as “at heart a somber, urgent academic examination of the many ways in which opposite-sex coupling can hurt the very individuals who cling to it most.” Her book Not Gay: Sex Between Straight White Men (2015) was a Lambda Literary Award finalist. She is the co-editor, with Soma Chaudhuri, of the first global feminist collection of academic and popular essays about witches and witchcraft, The Witch Studies Reader.​ Jane is also cofounder or SURJ DENA, the Altadena chapter of Showing Up for Racial Justice, and a member of the board of the racial justice and mutual aid organization My TRIBE Rise. You can find all of Jane’s books, as well as numerous booklists and book recommendations, at the Liberating Motherhood Bookshop. 

“White feminism is often about becoming equal to men, which makes you the leading oppressor across the globe. It leaves everyone else behind.”—Desiree Stephens  I’ve been thinking a lot lately about how we bring more women—especially white women—into the feminist fold. And then, once they’re there, how do we get them to embrace an intersectional approach that acknowledges and tackles the entirety of supremacy culture? I think the answer begins and ends with community—building community, working through conflict, determining who in our community to support and prioritize.  I brought my friend Desiree Stephens on the podcast to talk about how we build community across difference, how we recruit more women to the cause, and why things between Black women and white women so often break down.  In this episode, we talk about:  Why white women often end up feeling so defensive and aggrieved in anti-racist spaces.  Why the closer proximity of white and Black women, as opposed to white men and Black women, fosters both conflict and opportunities for change. The notion that white women are in charge of social change while white men are in charge of systemic change.  Shame as a colonial construct, and how the cycle of shame often keeps white women stuck.  Why you cannot call yourself an ally—and why no one can attest that any person is a universal ally, or even a consistently reliable ally.  What Desiree means when she says to give white men grace (and why it’s not about overlooking abuse). What it actually means to say that there are no good white people, and how “goodness” is a creation of supremacy culture.  The link between mean girl culture and white supremacy.  How white women should respond to call-outs.  How leaving white supremacy can be similar to leaving abusive relationships.  Worth is inherent; access is earned.  About Desiree Stephens Desireé B. Stephens, CSP-P, is a dynamic educator, counselor, and community builder dedicated to liberation through decolonization and whole-self healing. As the founder of Make Shi(f)t Happen and creator of the LIBERATE Framework™, she helps individuals and organizations dismantle systems of oppression, foster inclusive spaces, and embrace sustainable transformation. With a background rooted in trauma-informed care and intersectional approaches, Desireé specializes in wellness-centered, anti-harassment education and training. Her work spans personal growth, workplace equity, and community healing, offering tools that empower people to take actionable steps toward liberation. Desireé combines deep empathy with practical strategies, ensuring her teachings are both accessible and transformative. Through her Liberation Education Substack, seasonal circles, and workshops, she inspires changemakers to embrace introspection, dismantle oppressive systems, and build intentional, intersectional communities. Desireé’s passion for equity, reflection, and transformation is informed by her lived experiences and her commitment to co-creating a world where everyone can thrive. She believes in the power of rest, reflection, and intentional action to drive meaningful change—within ourselves and in the world around us.

Childbirth is an incredibly powerful rite of passage. The literal creation of life could be a source of empowerment, no matter how any individual person chooses to do it. Instead, patriarchy weaponizes birth as a tool of trauma and oppression that steadily normalizes the dehumanization of motherhood. My transition to motherhood included a massive fight against the hospital where I intended to give birth, multiple threatened lawsuits, and ultimately, a terrified hospital board attempting to appease me. That experience taught me that patriarchy depends on our silence, fear, and submission. When we fight back, we often win. The opening vignette for this podcast is the story of my first birth—the birth that solidified my identity as a birth justice activist. I met Cristen Pascucci of Birth Monopoly during the protest surrounding my first birth, and she’s been a friend and ally ever since. She’s a rich font of knowledge about birth and reproductive justice, and I think you’re going to love her. Some of the many topics we cover include:  How patriarchy uses childbirth to enforce women’s submission and subjugation.  The ways patriarchy weaponizes childbirth to get women to accept the devalued role of mother.  Why even many feminists don’t take issues of birth justice seriously.  The notion of birth as a punishment.  Why we demand that women have no specific requests or desires surrounding their births, and why we stigmatize women for having any needs at all.  The psychological effects of birth trauma, and why physical safety (which is wholly lacking in the American maternity care system) is not the only type of safety that matters.  Why going along with the system doesn’t work, and why this is not about natural or crunchy birth.  How a healthy birth system can manage medical interventions and save lives without also traumatizing families.  Why we frame women as selfish for having any needs at all when they give birth.  Patriarchy as a tool for controlling birth.  The epidemic of racism in childbirth, and the role of white women as both victims and victimizers in the birth justice movement.  How abusive clinicians weaponize the same tools as domestic abusers, such as by pretending to be victims. The stunning degree of abuse and neglect we expect women to accept during postpartum.  The collective trauma of women in an abusive birthing system, and how this system steals years of women’s lives.  How meeting patriarchy’s production demands can conceal women’s trauma, especially after birth.  If you’re unfamiliar with the American birth system, you might not know that birth has gotten more dangerous here over the last generation, not less, and that we are the only wealthy nation in which this is happening. Maternal mortality here is skyrocketing, and abuse is rampant. It’s not just an American problem, though. Patriarchy weaponizes birth to hurt women across the globe. Even in nations where birth is physically safe as compared to the United States it is often not psychologically safe. I’ve written extensively about the state of birth in the US. You can read some of those pieces over on my Daily Kos column, as well as here, here, and here. About Cristen Pascucci After the birth of her son in 2011, Cristen Pascucci left a career in public affairs to study American maternity care and women’s rights within it. In 2012, she joined ImprovingBirth as vice president, spearheading a multi-year grassroots media strategy to get the maternity care crisis in national news, creating a legal advocacy hotline for pregnant women, and raising awareness around obstetric violence through consumer campaigns, including 2014’s #BreaktheSilence–a campaign adopted in multiple European countries as a consumer advocacy strategy. Cristen has helped organize, strategize, and publicize major lawsuits related to obstetric violence in hospitals. She is co-creator of the Exposing the Silence Project and host of Birth Allowed Radio. As founder of Birth Monopoly, Cristen advocates for a freer maternity care market, working closely with leading national advocates, organizations, and birth lawyers, as well as educating the public and healthcare providers about women’s human and legal rights in childbirth. After a decade of full-time work on the issue of obstetric violence, Cristen is now working on a documentary film on the subject: Mother May I.Podcast scheduling noteWe almost hit our goal of 50,000 downloads this month, so I’ve decided to keep doing weekly podcasts for as long as I can. Because things are slow in December, I will only release two episodes that month, I will then pick back up the second full week of January, with weekly podcasts for season three. Thanks for your ongoing support. Please continue to comment, like, share, and most importantly, leave positive reviews on your favorite podcast platform.