The Doctor's Art

Many of the world’s best physicians find it surprisingly difficult to answer the question: Why are you in medicine? In the long, arduous journey of medical training or within the technocratically-minded healthcare system, one can easily get lost in the life of the mind—and become estranged from the life of the heart.Our guest on this episode is Brewer Eberly, MD, a third-generation family physician and a fellow at Duke Divinity School’s Theology, Medicine, and Culture Initiative. Dr. Eberly grew up listening to physicians in his family discuss their work and was drawn to how life’s biggest questions are present in medicine. Now, his research focuses on the intersections of medicine, aesthetics, and theology — with a special focus on the “nourishment of weary clinicians.” Over the course of our conversation, Dr. Eberly shares how his early interests in art and literature continue to shape his life and work, and how the privilege of accompanying patients in all stages of life motivates his practice. We discuss how family medicine requires practitioners to have something to say about the well-lived life, and how this kind of wisdom is forged in silent contemplation. Finally, Dr. Eberly concludes with a profound and personal reflection on the question: What does it mean to willingly receive the suffering of someone that you cannot fix?In this episode, you’ll learn about: 2:36 - Dr. Eberly’s medical and creative origin stories 10:45 - What makes family medicine unique, and Dr. Eberly’s approach to his work22:30 - How Dr. Eberly tries to stay connected to the meaning of medicine29:00 - The “Good Surgeon Project”37:45 - Dr. Eberly’s view of the limitations of artificial intelligence in medicine 43:30 - Ways of engaging with and being present for the suffering of patientsIf you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate, and review our show, available for free on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you know of a doctor, patient, or anyone working in health care who would love to explore meaning in medicine with us on the show, feel free to leave a suggestion in the comments or send an email to [email protected] The Doctor’s Art Podcast 2025

We often confuse happiness with the absence of sadness, or a meaningful life with a productive one. The result might be a life that runs smoothly, but feels strangely flat — as if something essential is missing from the story. What if a truly good life isn’t just happy and meaningful, but also interesting?Our guest today is Shige Oishi, PhD, professor of psychology at the University of Chicago and author of Life in Three Dimensions (2025). Oishi pioneered the idea of psychological richness — the notion that a good life requires a diverse set of interesting, even disorienting experiences. As an expert in social ecology and well-being, his work spans more than 200 scientific articles and has been featured in outlets such as The New York Times, The Washington Post, and The Wall Street Journal.Over the course of our conversation, professor Oishi traces his own journey from an undergraduate in booming-economy Tokyo — surrounded by overworked, unhappy adults — to a career in psychology in the United States, where seeing professors live differently opened his eyes to alternative ways of being. We explore how cultures like Japan, the United States, Finland, and Denmark differ in what they chase and expect from life; why small, everyday joys and high-quality relationships matter more than grand achievements; and how “success” and “ambition” can quietly shape our sense of happiness.We then dive into psychological richness as a third dimension of the good life alongside happiness and meaning — one defined by variety, newness, and memorable stories, often colored by both positive and negative emotions. We discuss the risks of chasing only stability and efficiency; the importance of spontaneity; and the surprisingly simple ways we can cultivate psychological richness by staying curious and saying “yes” more often.In this episode, you’ll hear about: 3:00 - Oishi’s path to studying the psychology of wellbeing 8:45 - Rising competitiveness in American culture and how it is affecting lifelong happiness 13:30 - Why Finland and Denmark are regularly rated the happiest countries 15:55 - Whether there is a “correct” way to find meaning and happiness19:15 - What it means to be “psychologically rich” 28:00 - Balancing positive and negative emotions in a happy, meaningful, and psychologically rich life41:30 - Developing psychological richness 45:45 - How psychological richness can help address physician burnoutIf you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate, and review our show, available for free on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you know of a doctor, patient, or anyone working in health care who would love to explore meaning in medicine with us on the show, feel free to leave a suggestion in the comments or send an email to [email protected] The Doctor’s Art Podcast 2025

When a religious person is isolated from their community, whether due to hospitalization or military service, they can often rely on a chaplain for spiritual support. But where does a non-religious person turn when facing the same circumstances? And what tools do they have for meaning making?Our guest is Greg Epstein, humanist chaplain at Harvard and MIT and author of the New York Times bestselling book Good Without God. As a humanist chaplain, Greg has spent his career building ethical communities that are united around the idea that human sociality and interdependence are a sufficient foundation for a meaningful life. Greg’s writings have been published widely, including in TIME magazine and The Washington Post, and he is a prominent public speaker in humanist and interfaith communities. In our conversation, Greg explains the role of a humanist chaplain, why a humanist chaplain is not necessarily an oxymoron, and how he guides individuals on their meaning-making journey. We discuss Greg’s candidate for the world’s most powerful word and a humanist’s argument for pursuing the work of healing over wealth. And finally, Greg walks us through the thesis of his most recent book Tech Agnostic – how technology has become a religion of its own, with a particular set of downsides. In this episode, you’ll hear about: 2:30 - Mr Epstein’s personal definitions of ‘chaplain’ and ‘religion’ 8:23 - How Mr. Epstein uses a humanist framework to guide meaning-making24:35 - Is there an absolute ‘good’? 33:25 - The risks of technology as a religion45:30 - Advice for medical professionals engaged in the work of healing while operating within a system built for profitVisit our website www.TheDoctorsArt.com where you can find transcripts of all episodes.If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate, and review our show, available for free on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you know of a doctor, patient, or anyone working in health care who would love to explore meaning in medicine with us on the show, feel free to leave a suggestion in the comments or send an email to [email protected] The Doctor’s Art Podcast 2025

Many medical trainees are driven to medicine by their moral or religious principles — only to find that they are expected to check their principles at the patient’s door. When this happens, physicians and patients may lose the opportunity for deeper, more healing relationships.Our guest on this episode is Dr. Farr Curlin, a hospitalist and palliative care physician at Duke University School of Medicine. Dr. Curlin holds joint appointments in the Trent Center for Bioethics, Humanities & History of Medicine and Duke Divinity School, where he studies the intersection of medicine, ethics, and religion. From a young age, Dr. Curlin was intrigued by the moral dimensions of medicine. As a medical trainee, he began to study how the religious backgrounds of physicians inform their practice. He is the co-author of The Way of Medicine, in which he challenges the modern “provider of services” model and calls for a recovery of medicine’s spiritual foundations as a healing profession. Now, at Duke Divinity School, he spends significant time helping physicians re-center their practice around the question: “What is Good?” Over the course of our conversation, we discuss attitudes toward religion in the medical profession and how many medical professionals worry that being openly religious may make them seem retrograde — or worse. We explore striking the balance between offering physician wisdom while respecting patient autonomy, consider whether the project of medicine makes sense when viewed through the lens of secular humanism, and reflect on how the physician attributes of humility and respect enable physicians to productively bring their full selves to the bedside, all while practicing medicine within a morally pluralistic society.In this episode, you’ll hear about: 2:48 - Dr. Curlin’s path to medicine and what drew him to a career at the intersection of religion and medicine 19:30 - Dr. Curlin’s thoughts on why doctors often feel they cannot be openly religious35:45 - How Dr. Curlin would change medical training to create a deeper focus on personal commitments and moral conviction 41:15 - Exploring the limitations of artificial agnosticism at the patient’s bedside51:50 - How fostering a spiritual connection to the work of healing can mitigate burnoutVisit our website www.TheDoctorsArt.com where you can find transcripts of all episodes.If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate, and review our show, available for free on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you know of a doctor, patient, or anyone working in health care who would love to explore meaning in medicine with us on the show, feel free to leave a suggestion in the comments or send an email to [email protected] The Doctor’s Art Podcast 2025

Medical trainees spend years mastering what to do when biology fails — countless protocols, procedures, and split-second decisions. By the end, they’re primed to fix what’s broken. But what if the mandate of medicine is simpler — and more human?Our guest on this episode is Dr. Jessica Zitter — a physician, author, and filmmaker who has spent her career at the fault line between intensive care and palliative care. Dr. Zitter was initially drawn to the technical choreography in the ICU: numbers to chase, procedures to perform. Yet, along the way, she began to notice the danger we rarely name — that in our devotion to protocol, we might drift away from the person in front of us. Over the course of our conversation, Dr. Zitter shares personal experiences that have shaped her approach to medicine. We talk about moral injury and how it compounds: when systems push us to act against our values, care gets worse, and the hurt deepens. We talk about how bias slips in when power meets prejudice at the bedside and why chaplains — so often sidelined — can be essential guides back to the human being we’re treating. Her prescription is simple: treat patients as you’d want your own loved ones to be treated. Ask for the story. Reconstruct the person we’ve taken apart into smaller pieces.Dr. Zitter is the author of her memoir Extreme Measures, appears in the Academy Award-nominated short film Extremis, and is the director of several documentaries, including 2025’s The Chaplain & the Doctor.In this episode, you’ll hear about: 2:45 - Dr. Zitter’s path to a career in intensive care medicine4:52 - A day in the life of an intensivist17:42 - Dr. Zitter’s unexpected pivot to prioritizing palliative care in her work  26:41 - The inspiration for Dr. Zitter’s film The Chaplain and the Doctor38:36 - How chaplaincy attends to the soul of the patient and what doctors can learn from this perspective42:51 - Navigating internalized bias as a doctor49:42 - Dr. Zitter’s advice for her younger self Visit our website www.TheDoctorsArt.com where you can find transcripts of all episodes.If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate, and review our show, available for free on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you know of a doctor, patient, or anyone working in health care who would love to explore meaning in medicine with us on the show, feel free to leave a suggestion in the comments or send an email to [email protected] The Doctor’s Art Podcast 2025