The Next Big Idea

Despite decades of urgency and alarm, progress on climate change has felt frustratingly slow. What if we've been going about it all wrong? Elizabeth Dunn and Jiaying "JZ" Zhao think there's a missing ingredient in the conversation: joy.

In their new book, Leave the Lights On, Liz and JZ draw on psychology, behavioral science, and sustainability research to argue that the most effective climate solutions aren't rooted in guilt, fear, or self-denial. They're rooted in easy choices that also make your life better.

Today on the show: why doom-and-gloom messaging backfires, what bacon dipped in maple syrup has to do with saving the planet, how buying more underwear might just protect our species, and why the choices that help most are also the ones that make us happier.

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Chapters:

(00:00) Introduction

(02:23) Why Climate Fear Backfires

(09:24) The Case for Making Meat a Treat

(17:44) The BLT Climate Paradox

(20:53) The Hidden Climate Cost of Your Bank Account

(23:50) Fast Fashion, Slow Happiness

(31:10) Why Driving Makes Us Unhappy

(39:08) The Best Trips Are Closer Than You Think

(45:24) The Science of Social Tipping Points

(49:41) The Climate Power of a Single Vote

About the Guests:

Elizabeth Dunn is a professor of psychology at the University of British Columbia and one of the world's leading researchers on happiness and well-being. Her work explores how people can use their time, money, and relationships to build more satisfying lives.

Jiaying Zhao is a professor of psychology and the founder of the Behavioral Sustainability Lab at the University of British Columbia. Her research focuses on climate action, behavioral change, and the role of psychology in accelerating the transition to a more sustainable future.

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🎥 The Next Big Idea is now on YouTube! You can find our episodes ⁠⁠⁠⁠here⁠⁠⁠⁠.

📱Follow Rufus on ⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠, subscribe to our ⁠⁠⁠Substack⁠⁠⁠, or send us an email at ⁠⁠podcast@nextbigideaclub.com⁠⁠.

🎁 The best way to support the show is by becoming a Next Big Idea Club member. Learn more at ⁠⁠⁠nextbigideaclub.com⁠⁠⁠, and use code PODCAST for a super secret discount (spoiler: it’s 20% off).

🔗 SPONSORED BY:

IM8 ➡️ Athletes, doctors, David Beckham — they all drink IM8. Get a free welcome kit, five free travel sachets, and 10% off your order when you use code NBI at ⁠im8health.com/nbi⁠

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Publisher, scientist, humorist, diplomat — Benjamin Franklin was America's first polymath. Today, with help from Eric Weiner, we revisit Franklin's life, searching for tips about how to be healthy, wealthy, and wise.

This episode first aired in July 2024.

🎥 The Next Big Idea is now on YouTube! You can find our episodes ⁠⁠⁠⁠here⁠⁠⁠⁠.

📱Follow Rufus on ⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠, subscribe to our ⁠⁠⁠Substack⁠⁠⁠, or send us an email at ⁠⁠podcast@nextbigideaclub.com⁠⁠.

🎁 The best way to support the show is by becoming a Next Big Idea Club member. Learn more at ⁠⁠⁠nextbigideaclub.com⁠⁠⁠, and use code PODCAST for a super secret discount (spoiler: it’s 20% off).

🔗 SPONSORED BY:

IM8 ➡️Athletes, doctors, David Beckham — they all drink IM8. Get a free welcome kit, five free travel sachets, and 10% off your order when you use code NBI at ⁠im8health.com/nbi⁠

Northwest Registered Agent ➡️ They’ve been helping small business owners and entrepreneurs launch and grow businesses for nearly 30 years. Learn more at ⁠northwestregisteredagent.com/nbifree⁠

Shopify ➡️ Stop waiting for permission to build something. Your next revenue stream starts free at ⁠shopify.com/nbi⁠

"We’re entering our 250th birthday, and we’re not quite in the mood for a birthday party. We’ve been tearing ourselves apart." That's what Walter Isaacson told Rufus when they sat down last year. But, he says, it doesn't have to be that way. "Let's use this birthday party as a chance to try to heal some of the divides."

Walter's latest book is The Greatest Sentence Ever Written. That sentence? “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”

Yes, it’s eloquent, but more than that, it gave the United States a mission statement, one that we are still striving — fitfully, imperfectly — to meet. With America's 250th birthday just a few days away, we think it's the perfect time to revisit this conversation with Walter about how that sentence came to be written, what it meant to the founders, and why it still matters today.

🎥 The Next Big Idea is now on YouTube! You can find our episodes ⁠⁠⁠here⁠⁠⁠.

📱Follow Rufus on ⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠, subscribe to our ⁠⁠Substack⁠⁠, or send us an email at ⁠podcast@nextbigideaclub.com⁠.

🎁 The best way to support the show is by becoming a Next Big Idea Club member. Learn more at ⁠⁠nextbigideaclub.com⁠⁠, and use code PODCAST for a super secret discount (spoiler: it’s 20% off).

🔗 SPONSORED BY:

IM8 ➡️ Athletes, doctors, David Beckham — they all drink IM8. Get a free welcome kit, five free travel sachets, and 10% off your order when you use code NBI at im8health.com/nbi

Northwest Registered Agent ➡️ They’ve been helping small business owners and entrepreneurs launch and grow businesses for nearly 30 years. Learn more at northwestregisteredagent.com/nbifree

Shopify ➡️ Stop waiting for permission to build something. Your next revenue stream starts free at shopify.com/nbi

On Thursday, Rufus and Robert Wright (The God Test) talked about AI as a new stage in the evolution of intelligence — and about the very human traits already showing up in our machines: empathy, deception, power-seeking, seduction. Today, they ask the harder question: what happens when these machines become the object of a geopolitical arms race?

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Fora ➡️ Build and scale your own travel business by becoming a Fora Advisor today at foratravel.com/idea

Northwest Registered Agent ➡️ Helping small business owners and entrepreneurs launch and grow businesses for nearly 30 years. Learn more at northwestregisteredagent.com/nbifree

Shopify ➡️ Launch your business for just $1/month. Start selling today at shopify.com/nbi

Does the logic of human destiny now lead to artificial intelligence? Are we creating a higher form of intelligence in our own image? And, if so, what kind of image is that?

These are the questions celebrated author Robert Wright asks in his new book, The God Test, which was published this week.

Bob argues that we should not be surprised to see signs of deception, power-seeking, flattery, and autonomy in AI systems. These are not alien traits; they are behaviors that show up again and again in intelligent systems — including us. And if there is an evolutionary process at work in AI, then we are not just observers: we are part of the selection pressure. In the end, we may get the AI we deserve.

This was such a wide-ranging conversation that we’ve divided it into two episodes. Today, we begin with the cosmic story: how life became mind, how mind became culture, and how culture has now begun to build a new mind — one that may surpass us.

🔗 SPONSORED BY:

Fora ➡️ Build and scale your own travel business by becoming a Fora Advisor today at foratravel.com/idea

Northwest Registered Agent ➡️ Helping small business owners and entrepreneurs launch and grow businesses for nearly 30 years. Learn more at northwestregisteredagent.com/nbifree

Shopify ➡️ Launch your business for just $1/month. Start selling today at shopify.com/nbi