The Symbolic World

In this conversation, I sat down with Mary Harrington about technology and the online world.
Mary reflects on her path as a writer, the evolution of online culture, and the growing difficulty of discerning truth in the digital environment. We also touch on memory, embodiment, cancel culture, and politics. 

YouTube version: https://youtu.be/eeBZuA0S1ZE

Mary will be speaking at the Symbolic World Summit. The theme of the conference is Retelling the Cosmic Epic, and Mary’s talk will be titled: 'Rebuild the Monasteries'
Description:
In an age of AI "slop" and flattened culture, how do we understand, and cultivate, what makes us distinctly human? Mary Harrington will argue that there is no need to reinvent the wheel. Premodern practices of memory and prayer, once cultivated in Europe's monasteries, can refresh our imaginations and salvage our human cultures in the digital age.
Come join us at Woodside Event Center | Broadview Heights, Ohio | May 14-16, 2026
Early Bird Pricing – Ends March 26th: Save $50 on both General Admission and VIP tickets
Buy tickets now: https://symbolicworldsummit.com/ 

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NEW COURSE: Plutarch: Symbolism in History with Pavel Shchelin
The problem with history is that you are in it. Plutarch teaches us to read power symbolically—asking "whom does the hero serve?" to predict leadership patterns before they play out.
Presenter: Pavel Shchelin
Duration: 8 weeks studying the lives of Greeks and Roman Lycurgus, Alcibiades, Lysander, Pompey, Caesar, and Octavian –as living patterns, not dead men.
Live classes are on Wednesdays at 4-6pm Eastern Time, starting March 18th through May 6th, 2026.
Price: $180 USD - Involved patrons can get a 10% discount. Apply your code at checkout. 
Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/plutarch-symbolism-in-history 
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Jonathan and Mary's discussion on Socrates in the City: https://youtu.be/nrsjZKPH4WA?si=kaM5zE2Qj-4XCD1K

Timestamps:
00:00 - Coming up
01:07 - Intro music
01:32 - Introduction
02:14 - Mary's journey
09:00 - The meaning of meaning
10:46 - The singularity already happened
12:53 - Being connected
17:28 - The printing press industrial template
20:52 - AI
22:21 - Using AI
25:47 - Internet platforms and politics
32:10 - Being anonymous
35:37 - Politics
37:44 - The end of the printing press
39:47 - The end of the industrial era
42:46 - Cancel culture
46:56 - Treasure houses

🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe 💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com 🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/

In this conversation I speak with Dr. Zachary Porcu about his book, Journey to Reality: Sacramental Life in a Secular Age, and the challenge of explaining true Christian thinking to modern people. We discuss how modern assumptions about the world make it difficult to understand ideas like sacraments, participation, and the relationship between the spiritual and material. Dr. Porcu explains why he wrote the book and how reframing basic categories—what we mean by God, religion, and reality—is often necessary before theology can make sense.

YouTube version: https://youtu.be/Qd9xENDzfRo 
Please review the Symbolic World podcast on Spotify or Apple podcasts. 

Dr. Zac’s website and book: https://zacharyporcu.com/
The Roots of Everything podcast (YouTube): https://www.youtube.com/@TheRootsofEverything
Substack: https://zacharyporcu.substack.com/ 

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NEW COURSE: Plutarch: Symbolism in History with Pavel Shchelin
The problem with history is that you are in it. Plutarch teaches us to read power symbolically—asking "whom does the hero serve?" to predict leadership patterns before they play out.
Presenter: Pavel Shchelin
Duration: 8 weeks studying the lives of Greeks and Roman Lycurgus, Alcibiades, Lysander, Pompey, Caesar, and Octavian –as living patterns, not dead men.
Live classes are on Wednesdays at 4-6pm Eastern Time, starting March 18th through May 6th, 2026.
Price: $180 USD, get the early bird discount of 15% off if you register by March 18th. 
Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/plutarch-symbolism-in-history 
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SUMMIT 2026: Join us for the Symbolic World Summit 2026! Speakers include Fr. Josiah Trenham, Mary Harrington, Jonathan Pageau, Dn. Seraphim Rohlin, and others.
Date: May 14-16
Place: Broadview Heights, OH
Buy your tickets now and get $50 off with the early bird sale through March 26th. Don't miss out! Hope to see you there: https://symbolicworldsummit.com/

Timestamps:
00:00 - Coming up
01:03 - Intro music
01:29 - Introduction
03:54 - Jargon
05:46 - Matter and spirituality
08:49 - Re-enchantment
13:10 - What you see
22:09 - The moral and physical laws
31:01 - Occult converts
36:39 - Supernatural experiences
40:54 - What do we do?
46:46 - Meditation
49:47 - On American religion
52:16 - The rational and the esoteric

🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe
💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com
🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau  
🎧 Listen to and review The Symbolic World podcast:
-Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0gI8bUwPtT3gkduHqNh6M5
-Apple podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-symbolic-world/id1386867488 
Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ 
My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/

This is a conversation between Deacon Seraphim Rohlin and Pavel Shchelin on political theology, power, and Plutarch’s Lives. They explore how ancient biographies reveal enduring patterns of ambition, authority, and the human passions that shape political history—from Rome to the modern world. Topics include Cicero, rhetoric and power, the fall of the Roman Republic, and why the stories of ancient statesmen still help us understand today’s political landscape.

YouTube version: https://youtu.be/Wo2IkgDT0q4

Please review this podcast on Spotify or Apple podcasts, it helps us a lot. Links:
-Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0gI8bUwPtT3gkduHqNh6M5 
-Apple podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-symbolic-world/id1386867488 

NEW COURSE: Plutarch: Symbolism in History with Pavel Shchelin
The problem with history is that you are in it. Plutarch teaches us to read power symbolically—asking "whom does the hero serve?" to predict leadership patterns before they play out.
Presenter: Pavel Shchelin
Duration: 8 weeks studying the lives of Greeks and Roman Lycurgus, Alcibiades, Lysander, Pompey, Caesar, and Octavian –as living patterns, not dead men.
Live classes are on Wednesdays at 4-6pm Eastern Time, starting March 18th through May 6th, 2026.
Price: $180 USD, get the early bird discount of 15% off if you register by March 18th. 
Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/plutarch-symbolism-in-history 

SUMMIT 2026: Join us for the Symbolic World Summit 2026! Speakers include Fr. Josiah Trenham, Mary Harrington, Jonathan Pageau, Dn. Seraphim Rohlin, and others.
Date: May 14-16
Place: Broadview Heights, OH
Buy your tickets now and get $50 off with the early bird sale through March 12th. Don't miss out! Hope to see you there: https://symbolicworldsummit.com/

Timestamps:
00:00 - Coming up
01:32 - Intro music
01:58 - Introduction
03:47 - The separation of religion and politics
07:44 - Current politics
09:20 - How they met
10:46 - Why Plutarch?
18:46 - If you were pointing a video camera
20:20 - Great men
24:28 - Plutarch's Lives
26:57 - Influence
28:40 - Cicero
49:18 - Digging his own grave
56:58 - Word and will
01:05:48 - Cicero's lesson for us
01:10:58 - Course info
01:16:06 - The point of studying history

🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe
💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com
🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau

Magical beginnings, secular endings. In this episode of Universal History, Deacon Seraphim Rohlin and I start a discussion about early Mormonism (or rather, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) within the broader context of American religious history.
We look at the enchanted religious world of early America — folk magic, treasure seeking, restorationism, the Melchizedek priesthood — and how these patterns shaped movements like Mormonism. We also reflect on the recurring American impulse to “restore” a lost spiritual authority, and the impulse to, on the other hand, make all things respectably secular.

This is episode 4 of our Universal History series on the American religion. Watch it here on YouTube:
Playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLVX4HUUPrIY_U0msyBRVpwCI_srzn3tjL
Episode 1: https://youtu.be/htXHJ1WRSAg
Episode 2: https://youtu.be/o9rMy6lde0c
Episode 3: https://youtu.be/0_RKBPaQAyk
Episode 4: https://youtu.be/ZopvdgYe-UA

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Join us for the Symbolic World Summit 2026! Speakers include Fr. Josiah Trenham, Mary Harrington, Dn. Seraphim Rohlin, myself, and others.
Date: May 14-16
Place: Broadview Heights, OH
Buy your tickets now and get $50 off with the early bird sale through March 12th. Don't miss out! Hope to see you there: https://symbolicworldsummit.com/

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NEW COURSE: The Art of Imitating Heaven: Structure and Meaning in Ancient Cosmology By Joshua Sturgill
What is heaven? Where is it? For ancient people, the answer was obvious: simply look up at the night sky. For them, to see the stars and planets was to see the face of the divine. Christianity, too, understood the visible sky as the realm of unfallen creation. What does this belief mean, and why was it lost?
🗓 Live classes are on Sundays at 5-6:30pm Eastern Time, starting February 1st through March 8th, 2026.
💰 Price: $150 USD (Involved patrons qualify for a 10% discount)
⏰ Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/the-art-of-imitating-heaven

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Timestamps:
00:00 - Coming up
01:01 - Intro music
01:27 - The problem with talking about Mormonism
06:10 - Context for why to talk about this
13:26 - The Bible and magic
20:46 - The distinction in magic
25:55 - Enchanted practices
35:14 - Baptism for the dead
36:20 - Melchizedek priesthood
38:54 - Defining feature of American religion
41:28 - The charismatic narrative
42:43 - Hebrews
44:46 - Esoteric Enoch
45:52 - Secret garments
46:45 - The Whitmer family
51:24 - Joseph Smith
58:56 - Proscribed but practiced
01:02:52 - Many religious experiences
01:04:54 - The attitude to magic and miracles
01:09:24 - Magical beginning, secular end
01:16:40 - Long-lasting

🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe
💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com
🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau  

🎧 Listen to and review The Symbolic World podcast:
-Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0gI8bUwPtT3gkduHqNh6M5
-Apple podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-symbolic-world/id1386867488 

Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ 
My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/

In this conversation, I sit down with Stephen Roach on the Makers and Mystics podcast to explore why our stories feel exhausted — and what that reveals about our cultural moment. We talk about the end of the post–World War II narrative, the collapse of the hero (and even the anti-hero), and how storytelling has drifted. We also discuss fairy tales, monsters, AI, and the future of art.

Let me know what you think in the comments and come join us at the Breath and the Clay conference, a creative arts gathering in Winston Salem, NC March 20-22, 2026: http://www.thebreathandtheclay.com/

YouTube version of this episode: https://youtu.be/Xbr6XQlspGQ

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Another opportunity to come together and meet is the Symbolic World Summit 2026! Speakers include Fr. Josiah Trenham, Mary Harrington, Dn. Seraphim Rohlin, myself, and others.
Date: May 14-16
Place: Broadview Heights, OH
Buy your tickets now and get $50 off with the early bird sale. Don't miss out: https://symbolicworldsummit.com/
Hope to see you there.

🎧 Listen to and review The Symbolic World podcast:
-Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0gI8bUwPtT3gkduHqNh6M5
-Apple podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-symbolic-world/id1386867488 
🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe
💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com
🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau  

Timestamps:
00:00 - Coming up
01:21 - Intro music
01:47 - Introduction
03:08 - Narrative exhaustion
04:38 - End of the WW2 narrative
08:40 - Fairy tales
11:09 - Jonathan's retelling
13:17 - Art and ideology
17:41 - Complexity in religious art
21:32 - Trust in the audience
24:33 - Participation in art
28:27 - Distorted retellings
32:30 - Resistance of tyranny
35:28 - Identity and form
37:16 - Limitation and contemporary art
41:34 - AI art
44:11 - Human connection
45:30 - Making space

Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ 
My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/