The Cove Podcast

• Spiritual Toughness: The Big Three Questions – CHAP Gav Keating

  “It would be so much easier to say, ‘hey, I was riding on my white horse on the road to Damascus and I got struck down by lightning... but that’s definitely not what occurred.’” In this week’s episode, the host sits down with Chaplain Gav Keating, whose journey through the Australian Army spans from the 2nd Battalion, the Royal Australian Regiment, to the Special Air Service Regiment, to commanding the 3rd Battalion, the Royal Australian Regiment and leading Task Group Taji 6 as a Colonel on Operation OKRA—before making the shift to study theology and become an Army Chaplain. Now serving as the padre at 5/7 Battalion, the Royal Australian Regiment, Chaplain Keating reflects on the link between leadership, purpose, and what he calls spiritual toughness. We explore how spirituality—defined not as religion, but as the search for meaning, purpose, and identity—underpins resilience and fighting spirit in soldiers. Drawing on his experience leading troops in combat and counselling them in peace, Chaplain Keating discusses the “big three” questions posed by Rabbi Jonathan Sacks: Who am I? Why am I here? How then shall I live? He uses case studies from his own operational experience and Senator John McCain’s time as a prisoner of war in Vietnam to explore what keeps people going when others are deliberately trying to break them. From the moral component of fighting power to the power of reflection, we unpack how spiritual strength becomes a force multiplier in the profession of arms. Chaplain Keating introduces his concept of a Spiritual Appreciation—turning the Military Appreciation Process inward—and explains what happens when institutions fail to live up to the trust their people place in them. He closes with a challenge: to take the time to write a personal mission statement and define what truly matters in your life. In a world of relentless tempo and external noise, he argues that clarity of purpose is not something that comes easy—but that it’s the foundation of resilience, leadership, and a strong fighting spirit. ————————————————————————— Subscribe to The Cove Podcast to make sure you do not miss out on any of the heavy-hitting content we have planned.

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• The Invisible Front: The Importance of Effective Counterintelligence - MAJ Paul Patty

  'These people aren’t ghosts, as much as they attempt to be or seem like it ...’ In this week’s episode, we sit down with MAJ Paul Patty, an Intelligence Officer in the Australian Army, to unpack counterintelligence (CI) in modern conflict. MAJ Patty is an expert in counterintelligence, and his skills have been relied upon in both the private and government sectors. We open with two stark contrasts: a contemporary case study on Ukraine’s operational planning and the consequences when CI is poorly conducted, set against the UK’s Double-Cross system in the Second World War—a successful approach to turn Axis spies to report bogus information back to Germany. We also examine how Russian services seeded spies inside Ukraine and across other post-Soviet states to run grey-zone deception operations, leaking operational plans back to Moscow and distorting Ukrainian decision cycles before contact. We also confront a hard truth at home: Australians are not immune to recruitment by Foreign Intelligence Services. The classic levers of MICE—money, ideology, coercion, and ego—remain timeless vulnerabilities. Understanding how these levers are pulled, and recognising them early in ourselves and our teams, is essential to preventing insiders from becoming access points into our operations. From there, MAJ Patty lays out what CI is (and isn’t): not just security compliance, but a campaign to degrade, deny, and manipulate an adversary’s understanding of our intent, capabilities, and movements. We explore how offensive and defensive CI intersect—neutralising hostile HUMINT networks, protecting sensitive capabilities, countering technical collection, and planning for counter-sabotage and partner-force integrity—and why CI effects must be integrated into operations from the start, not bolted on at the end. Whether you’re a junior leader looking for practical CI habits or a planner figuring out how to wire CI into targeting, deception, and signature management, this conversation offers a clear, hard-edged primer on how to fight for decision advantage when it matters most. ————————————————————————— Subscribe to The Cove Podcast to make sure that you do not miss out on any of the heavy hitting content we have planned

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• Warrior Ethos: from Non-Combatant Evacuation to High-End Warfighting - WO1 Scott Krum

  ‘Everyone wants the view, but nobody wants the climb.’ In this week’s episode, we sit down with WO1 Scott Krum, the Regimental Sergeant Major of the Royal Australian Infantry Corps, to revisit the Australian Defence Force’s contribution to the Kabul Non-Combatant Evacuation Operation (NEO) and to ask, plainly, what we demand of soldiers and officers in 2025 and beyond. From 14–30 August 2021, a US-led, coalition-supported NEO moved approximately 124,000 civilians through Hamid Karzai International Airport; Australia evacuated over 4,200 people on 32 flights. WO1 Krum takes us onto the ground with the Ready Battle Group—through the North Gate and Abbey Gate—to unpack readiness under pressure, ethical restraint amidst chaos, and how discipline and purpose hold when the stakes are highest. We then pivot to Warrior Culture: what readiness really means (your equipment, your skills, and the reality that sometimes you’re going without), why purpose must be understood and owned at every level, and how healthy competition—especially at a section level—sharpens a unit. We tackle Australia’s tall-poppy syndrome, why a fear of failure (and a candid Black Box Review) is a feature not a bug, and how resilience is built in hard times. We then turn our sights to unit identity and death symbology before WO1 Krum sets a clear standard for behaviour, restraint, and fighting spirit. We close with WO1 Krum’s challenge to the listeners: if you want to win in Army you must get FILTHY — forget what others think you can do, find intrinsic motivation, take the little wins, remember that what we do is tough, build good habits, and remember that only you can do it. This episode is recorded from the Australian Army Infantry Museum in Singleton NSW with one of Australia’s most senior and respected soldiers. ————————————————————————— Subscribe to The Cove Podcast to make sure that you do not miss out on any of the heavy-hitting content we have planned.

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• The Unseen Ties: Exploring Civil-Military Relations – Prof. Risa Brooks PhD

  ‘The problem is if society becomes accustomed to or reliant on using the army to solve problems or to address failures of civilian capacity.’ In this week’s episode, we sit down with Dr Risa Brooks PhD, a Professor of Political Science at Marquette University and a leading scholar on civil-military relations, to unpack the enduring tension between military effectiveness and democratic control. Drawing on Peter Feaver’s concept of the “problematique,” Dr Brooks examines how this dilemma plays out in democracies like Australia and the United States today. We explore the public face of the military — why trust, transparency, and perception matter, and why uniformed leaders must tread carefully when engaging publicly. Dr Brooks discusses the risks of politicisation, the responsibilities of senior leaders, and the limits of professional dissent in systems that prize both loyalty and independence. The conversation also turns to the paradox of trust: how high public confidence in the military can lead to its overuse in civilian roles, and what that means for long-term legitimacy. We ask whether silence is always the right response to criticism, whether the expectation of apolitical conduct can itself be a trap, and how accountability should be exercised by senior leaders in difficult times. Finally, Dr Brooks highlights what healthy civil-military relations look like in practice, points to international models worth learning from, and offers practical advice for Australia’s emerging leaders on how to strengthen civil-military trust for the future. —————————————————————————   Subscribe to The Cove Podcast to make sure that you do not miss out on any of the heavy hitting content we have planned.

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• A New Era of Decision Making in the Australian Army – CAPT Jimmy Wilson

  ‘Our boss at the time [was] very experienced in [Air Mobile Operations] and really raised us... [to be] tuned into the detail in terms of planning chalks and serials and bump plans ...’ On this episode of The Cove Podcast, we sit down with CAPT Jimmy Wilson, a Small Group Instructor at the Royal Military College – Duntroon (RMC-D), to unpack the Australian Defence Force’s new Decision Making and Planning Process (DMPP). An Infantry Officer with service in the 3rd Battalion, Royal Australian Regiment; the Combat Training Centre; and the 8/9th Battalion, Royal Australian Regiment, CAPT Wilson now teaches the Army’s newest officers how to plan and make effective decisions. The DMPP replaced the Military Appreciation Process (MAP) which was made up of the Combat Military Appreciation Process (CMAP), Individual Military Appreciation Process (IMAP), and the Staff Military Appreciation Process (SMAP). The DMPP now includes two processes, the Immediate Decision-Making Process (IDMP) and the Deliberate Military Appreciation Process (DMAP). At its core, the DMPP puts the commander back at the centre of planning—driving the process through timely, intuitive decision-making. As CAPT Wilson explains, this isn’t about reinventing the wheel, but codifying practices already being applied on major exercises and operations and allowing more flexibility and intuition. Whether you’re a junior leader grappling with planning for the first time, or part of a formation headquarters staff transitioning from the MAP to the DMPP in your formation, this episode provides practical insight into how RMC-D is rolling out the new training package—and what it means for leaders across the Army. ————————————————————————— Subscribe to The Cove Podcast to make sure that you do not miss out on any of the heavy hitting content we have planned.

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