Pitchfork Economics with Nick Hanauer

Housing is still ridiculously expensive, and building more housing is absolutely part of the solution. But supply alone won’t fix a system where landlords have the power to jack up rents with the assistance of algorithms, and developers make more money building for the wealthiest in the market, rather than building homes a typical family can afford.

In this 2024 conversation, Brian Callaci and Sandeep Vaheesan join Nick and Goldy to explain why America’s housing crisis is about more than a shortage of homes. They dig into landlord power, RealPage and algorithmic rent-setting, tenant protections, rent stabilization, and why relying on private developers alone won’t produce enough housing that working- and middle-class families can actually afford.

They also make the case for a bigger public role in housing—including social housing and other public options that can create affordable homes without requiring every project to maximize private returns.

This episode originally aired December 10, 2024.

Brian Callaci is the Campaigns Director at the Strategic Organizing Center and the former chief economist at the Open Markets Institute. He is also the author of Chains of Command: The Rise and Cruel Reign of the Franchise Economy.

Sandeep Vaheesan is Legal Director at the Open Markets Institute, where he leads the organization’s legal advocacy and research, including its amicus program. His work focuses on antitrust, monopoly power, labor markets, and fair competition.

Further reading:

“The Market Alone Can’t Fix the U.S. Housing Crisis”

“Deconstructing Housing”

“Supply and the Housing Crisis: A Debate”

U.S. v. RealPage

Social Media:

@briancallaci.bsky.social

@brian_callaci

@sandeepvaheesan

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Industrial policy is back at the center of the economic debate. But tariffs, factories, and reshoring are only part of the story. In this 2023 conversation, development economist Isabel Estevez joins Nick and Goldy to argue that industrial policy is ultimately about choices: what we produce, how we produce it, and who benefits. She explains why a smart industrial strategy has to look beyond manufacturing output to workers, communities, climate, public investment, and the broader public good.

Because the real debate isn’t whether the government shapes markets. It already does. The question is what—and who—we’re shaping them for.

This episode originally aired August 1, 2023.

Isabel Estevez is an institutional and development economist and Co-Executive Director of i3T—Industry, Infrastructures and Innovation for Strategic Transformation. She previously served as Deputy Director of Industrial Policy and Trade at the Roosevelt Institute and as a Senior Policy Advisor at the Sierra Club.

Further reading:

Using Industrial Policy for Productive Transformation: Three Lessons from Development Economics for US Industrial Strategy

How Can (Green) Industrial Policy Serve Human and Natural Flourishing?

Global Green Industrial Policy: Navigating Power Dynamics for a Pro-Working-Class, Pro-Development Green Transformation

The New Economics of Industrial Policy

Social Media:

@isabel_estevez_

isaestevez.com

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We like to think that if a company cheats us, steals our wages, or breaks the law, we can take them to court. Unfortunately, there’s a good chance you’ve already signed that right away.

This week, Brendan Ballou returns to the podcast to explain how forced arbitration created what he calls America’s secret justice system—and why this is as much an economic story as a legal one. He joins Paul and Goldy to unpack how corporations use economic power to weaken workers’ and consumers’ legal power, why the myth of the “voluntary contract” falls apart when every option comes with the same fine print, and how making corporate misconduct harder to challenge changes the incentives that shape the entire market.

Brendan Ballou is the founder of the Public Integrity Project, a nonprofit anti-corruption law firm, and the author of When Companies Run the Courts: How Forced Arbitration Became America’s Secret Justice System.

Further reading:

When Companies Run the Courts: How Forced Arbitration Became America’s Secret Justice System

Plunder: Private Equity’s Plan to Pillage America

Pitchfork Economics: Stop the Steal: Revisiting Private Equity’s Plan to Pillage America (with Brendan Ballou)

Public Integrity Project

Social Media:

@brendanballou.bsky.social

Instagram: @brendanballou

Substack: @brendanballou

@brendanballou

Ask Pitchfork: Have a question for Nick, Goldy, or the show? Leave it in the comments on YouTube or Spotify with #askpitchfork.

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For 150 years, the price tag made a simple and universal promise: the price you saw was the price everyone saw. Now, that promise is disappearing. This week, Lindsay Owens, President and CEO of the Groundwork Collaborative returns to discuss her new book, Gouged: The End of a Fair Price — And What That Means for Your Wallet. She explains how corporations are using algorithms, personal data, and AI to figure out not what something costs, but how much you personally are willing to pay. From Instacart’s grocery experiments to the coming world of AI shopping agents, the conversation asks a basic question: If nobody knows what the real price is, can markets actually work the way we’re told they do?

Lindsay Owens, PhD, is the President and CEO of Groundwork Collaborative, an economic policy think tank focused on corporate power, prices, and an economy that works for workers and families. She is also the author of Gouged: The End of a Fair Price — And What That Means for Your Wallet.

Social Media:

@lindsayowens.bsky.social

@groundwork.bsky.social

@lindsayowensphd

@groundworkcollab

@owenslindsay1

@Groundwork

Further reading:

Gouged: The End of a Fair Price—and What That Means for Your Wallet

“Same Cart, Different Price: Instacart’s Price Experiments Cost Families at Checkout”

When the Invisible Hand Becomes An Algorithm with Lindsay Owens

How Outsized Corporate Profits Raised Prices with Lindsay Owens

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Economics teaches us to think of markets as natural forces, and government as something that should only intervene when they fail. In her new book, The Common Good Economy: How to Make Capitalism Work for Us All, economist Mariana Mazzucato argues that story is backward. She joins Nick and Goldy to ask what changes when we recognize that markets are choices — shaped by rules, institutions, public investment, and power — and what that means for the kind of economy we could build instead.

If we designed this system, can we redesign it?

Mariana Mazzucato is a Professor in the Economics of Innovation and Public Value at University College London (UCL) and founding director of the UCL Institute for Innovation and Public Purpose. She is the author of several acclaimed books, including The Entrepreneurial State, The Value of Everything, Mission Economy, The Big Con, and most recently, The Common Good Economy: How to Make Capitalism Work for Us All.

Social Media:

@mazzucatom.bsky.social

@MazzucatoM

@mazzucatom

Further reading:

The Common Good Economy: How to Make Capitalism Work for Us All

UCL Institute for Innovation and Public Purpose

The Entrepreneurial State

Mission Economy: A Moonshot Guide to Changing Capitalism

The Big Con

The Great Transformation by Karl Polanyi

A Mission-Oriented Approach to School Meals

Mission-Oriented Public-Private Partnerships: Lessons from the Oxford–AstraZeneca COVID-19 Vaccine

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