The Divorce and Beyond® Podcast with Susan Guthrie, Esq.

What happens when you suspect your spouse isn't telling the truth about the finances? Susan Guthrie says it's more common than you think, and it's exactly what forensic accountant Tracy Coenen does for a living.

Tracy Coenen has spent more than 25 years uncovering hidden money in corporate fraud cases and in divorces too. She calls it "divorce financial planning," when someone sees a split coming and starts thinking about what they can do with the money so they don't have to divide it or pay support on it. She also calls out "divorce amnesia," the sudden inability to remember an inheritance or a bank account on a financial disclosure form. Tracy returns to Divorce and Beyond to walk through the five most common ways people hide money when a marriage ends.

As a divorce attorney for more than three decades, Susan has seen plenty of these sneaky moves herself, and she knows a forensic accountant can almost always find them. Together, she and Tracy go through the practical, do it yourself steps to spot the signs using bank statements, tax documents, and a little pattern recognition, without hiring a small army of experts. If the numbers in your divorce have ever felt off, this one is for you.

What You'll Learn

What to look for when a spouse is only depositing part of their paycheck into the joint account

Why a sudden increase in cash withdrawals, or a spouse suddenly hitting the ATM, is worth a closer look

How gift cards and cash back at checkout can become a quiet way to siphon money out of the marital estate

How to spot a secret credit card, especially when it's hiding at the very same bank as your main account

Why a paycheck, bonus, or commission that vanishes right as a divorce begins may not be a coincidence

How pulling together the right bank statements and tax documents lets you spot these patterns yourself, without paying a forensic accountant

Episode 4 of 8 in the Divorce & Beyond Summer Essentials Series. This summer, Divorce & Beyond brings back 8 the episodes listeners reach for most, the conversations with the clearest, most practical guidance for anyone thinking about, going through, or rebuilding after divorce. New Essentials air every other Monday all summer. Follow the show so you never miss one. 

About this week's special guest: Tracy Coenen

Tracy has been investigating fraud for more than 25 years, but she didn’t always want to be a forensic accountant. With a dream of one day being a prison warden, Tracy went to Marquette University in Milwaukee, WI to get a criminology degree. A class on financial crime investigations reminded her how much she loved Encyclopedia Brown books as a kid. She continued her criminology degree, but added accounting and economics courses so she could sit for the CPA exam… and here Tracy is, finding money in cases of corporate fraud, high net worth divorce, and other financial shenanigans.

Find More Information on Tracy:

Fraud Coach: http://fraudcoach.com/beyond

Find Me The Money: Take Control, Uncover the Truth, and Win the Money You Deserve In Your Divorce https://amzn.to/3A105ep

Take the assessment: Is there financial fraud in your marriage? https://www.fraudcoach.com/a/2147522699/Epr7xfEb 

The Divorce Money Guide: https://www.fraudcoach.com/a/2147518094/Epr7xfEb 

Win Your Divorce:  https://www.fraudcoach.com/a/2147528573/Epr7xfEb 

Win Your Divorce All Access Pass: https://www.fraudcoach.com/a/2147528572/Epr7xfEb

Check out Tracy's previous episode: How to Spot the Red Flags of Financial Abuse in Divorce with Top Forensic Accountant, Tracy Coenen

If This Episode Helped You Follow Divorce & Beyond so you never miss an episode. Share it with someone who needs clear, reliable guidance right now. And if you have a moment, a five-star review makes a real difference in helping the show reach the people who need it most.

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Website: divorceandbeyondpod.com

Instagram: instagram.com/divorceandbeyondpod

About the Host: Susan Guthrie, Esq. Susan Guthrie is one of the nation's leading family law and mediation attorneys, with more than 35 years of experience helping people navigate divorce with clarity and strategy. She is the Immediate Past Chair of the American Bar Association Section of Dispute Resolution, a best-selling author, and a sought-after speaker and trainer.

Susan recently appeared as the featured expert on The Oprah Podcast and has been cited in The Wall Street Journal, Forbes, Town & Country, The Washington Post, NewsNation, and NBC Chicago Today, among others.

As the creator and host of Divorce & Beyond, ranked in the top 1% of all podcasts worldwide with more than 1.3 million downloads and an Apple Top 100 Self-Help designation, Susan brings together leading legal and mental health experts to help listeners move through divorce and into what comes next.

Learn more at divorceandbeyondpod.com/about.

 

Disclaimer: The commentary and opinions shared on this podcast are for informational and entertainment purposes only and do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state regarding your specific situation.

Susan Guthrie turns to a subject that keeps more people up at night than almost any other one in divorce: money. Specifically, how to protect it, and how to stop spending it in the wrong places.

Heather Locus is a CPA, certified financial planner, and certified divorce financial analyst with a rare gift for taking the most complicated financial pieces of divorce and making them feel manageable. In this episode, Heather shares her top strategies for saving money in your divorce, from the common mistakes that quietly drain your settlement to the smart moves that keep more of your hard-earned dollars where they belong, with you.

Together, Susan and Heather walk through her five ways to save money in a divorce, from getting organized early and assembling the right support team, to keeping business and emotion separate, to using her Settle Smart projections to see the road ahead. As Heather points out, these are critical points whether you have millions in the bank or are living paycheck to paycheck.

What You'll Learn

Why something as simple as setting up a separate email for divorce communications can save real time, money, and stress

What discernment counseling is, and how pausing to consider it can save money in your divorce negotiations, even if you still end up divorcing

Why having laser focused priorities, for yourself and for your spouse, is the key to smart negotiating

How to assemble the right support team, and when mediation, collaborative divorce, or traditional litigation is the better fit

Why remembering "it's business" helps you make financial decisions instead of emotional ones

What Settle Smart is, and how modeling your financial future helps you know what to accept, and what's worth continuing to negotiate for

Episode 3 of 8 in the Divorce & Beyond Summer Essentials Series. This summer, Divorce & Beyond brings back 8 the episodes listeners reach for most, the conversations with the clearest, most practical guidance for anyone thinking about, going through, or rebuilding after divorce. New Essentials air every other Monday all summer. Follow the show so you never miss one. 

About this week's special guest: Heather Locus

Heather founded the National Divorce Practice Group at BDF Private Wealth to help divorcing individuals consciously navigate their divorce’s emotional and business aspects. From hiring the right fit attorney through their SettleSmart™ analysis, then implementing the divorce decree and auditing it annually, Heather ensures you have the resources you need to start your next chapter on a firm footing.

Heather founded our Women’s Service Team in 2006 to help female executives and business owners, widows, and women transitioning through divorce. After going through her own divorce in 2011, she realized how much more we could do to support divorcing women and men with a practice dedicated to serving their unique needs. Heather is driven by deep empathy to help divorcing individuals have clarity and confidence in finalizing their divorce.

A Forbes “America’s Top Women Advisor,” Heather is a nine-time “Five Star Wealth Manager” according to Chicago magazine, was named an “Influential Women in Business” by The Business Ledger, a “Top 200 Wealth Advisor Mom” by Working Mother, and an InvestmentNews “Woman to Watch.” Heather is an author of two books on divorce and has contributed to leading publications, including The Wall Street Journal, Crain’s Chicago Business, Family Lawyer Magazine, and Divorce Magazine on multiple topics. She is a CPA, CFP® practitioner, and a Certified Divorce Financial Analyst (CDFA®) professional and has completed intensive executive coaching and divorce mediation training.

Heather loves learning from her teenage son and daughter and working with organizations she is passionate about, including After School Matters, The Lilac Tree, Between Friends, and Make-A-Wish Foundation.

For more information on Heather:

Call/Text Heather at 312-312-2144 or email hlocus@bdfllc.com if you or a friend are contemplating or in the middle of a divorce.

Financial Issues in Divorce: A Client Handbook: Heather's latest book written for the American Academy of Matrimonial Attorneys.

Listen to Heather's prior episode of Divorce & Beyond:  

Negotiating Your Financial Future: Key Factors to Consider with Leading Divorce Financial Professional, Heather Locus" on The Divorce & Beyond Podcast with Susan Guthrie, Esq. #114

If This Episode Helped You Follow Divorce & Beyond so you never miss an episode. Share it with someone who needs clear, reliable guidance right now. And if you have a moment, a five-star review makes a real difference in helping the show reach the people who need it most.

Follow Divorce & Beyond

Website: divorceandbeyondpod.com

Instagram: instagram.com/divorceandbeyondpod

About the Host: Susan Guthrie, Esq. Susan Guthrie is one of the nation's leading family law and mediation attorneys, with more than 35 years of experience helping people navigate divorce with clarity and strategy. She is the Immediate Past Chair of the American Bar Association Section of Dispute Resolution, a best-selling author, and a sought-after speaker and trainer.

Susan recently appeared as the featured expert on The Oprah Podcast and has been cited in The Wall Street Journal, Forbes, Town & Country, The Washington Post, NewsNation, and NBC Chicago Today, among others.

As the creator and host of Divorce & Beyond, ranked in the top 1% of all podcasts worldwide with more than 1.3 million downloads and an Apple Top 100 Self-Help designation, Susan brings together leading legal and mental health experts to help listeners move through divorce and into what comes next.

Learn more at divorceandbeyondpod.com/about.

 

Disclaimer: The commentary and opinions shared on this podcast are for informational and entertainment purposes only and do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state regarding your specific situation.

Susan Guthrie has been a divorce attorney and mediator for 35 years and she thinks that in almost all cases, your first hire in divorce should be a coach. This episode explains why.

How do you find the right divorce coach for you? The popularity of divorce coaching has grown enormously, and with so many kinds of coaches out there, it can be hard to know what a divorce coach actually does or how to find the right one. People hear the word coach and think of life coaches, athletic coaches, business coaches, and divorce coaching gets lumped in with all of them. This episode clears that up and answers the questions many people need early in the divorce process.

Susan is joined by Tracy Callahan and Debra Doak, the founders of The Divorce Coaches Academy, who train and support divorce coaches and are themselves practicing coaches, mediators, and Susan's colleagues in the dispute resolution field. They explain what a divorce coach really is, a flexible, goal-oriented process recognized by the American Bar Association as a form of alternative dispute resolution, designed to support and guide people through both the business side and the emotional management of divorce.

Together they walk through how to find a coach who fits, what questions to ask on a complimentary discovery call, why training and certification matter in a field with no national standards, and how the right coach can save a client both time and money. Susan makes the case she has made before, that a divorce coach is an essential member of your team and often the best place to start, because the choice can shape who you hire next.

Episode 2 of 8 in the Divorce & Beyond Summer Essentials Series This summer, Divorce & Beyond brings back 8 the episodes listeners reach for most, the conversations with the clearest, most practical guidance for anyone thinking about, going through, or rebuilding after divorce. New Essentials air every other Monday all summer. Follow the show so you never miss one. The series starts here.

What You'll Learn

What a divorce coach actually is, and why the American Bar Association recognizes divorce coaching as a form of alternative dispute resolution

Why finding a coach before an attorney can change who you hire and how your whole divorce unfolds

How to tell if a coach is the right fit, from credentials and training to the complimentary discovery call

What to ask about a coach's process, programs, pricing, and how they work before you commit

Why training and certification matter in a field with no national standards, and what it means to coach from your scar and not from your wound

About Our Guests: Tracy Callahan and Debra Doak

Debra and Tracy are both committed to the profession of divorce coaching and the process of alternative dispute resolution. They are both CDC Certified Divorce Coaches®, authors, educators, and founding members of Divorce Coaches Academy, an online education platform that provides continuing education for practicing, professional divorce coaches.

Tracy is a Florida Supreme Court Certified Mediator, serves as the Manager of the Mentor and Peer Coaching Programs for the CDC Certified Divorce Coach® certifying body, and has built her practice and reputation as an alternative dispute resolution specialist and conflict expert over the past 13 years.  Get Tracy's book: Divorce: Taking the High Road: Simple Strategies for Creating a Healthy Divorce, Tracy Callahan contributor and reach out to her at www.mediatingmatters.com

Debra is also a Certified Divorce Financial Analyst®, Ohio Supreme Court trained Family Court Mediator, and Betrayal Trauma Specialist.  Get Debra's book: High Conflict Divorce for Women and reach out to her at www.debradoak.com

For More Information on Tracy, Debra and The Divorce Coaches Academy:

Website:  https://www.divorcecoachesacademy.com/

Email: dca@divorcecoachesacademy

Social Media Handles 

IG: @divorcecoachesacademy
FB: @divorcecoachesacademy
LI: divorce-coaches-academy
Twitter: @AcademyDivorce

If This Episode Helped You Follow Divorce & Beyond so you never miss an episode. Share it with someone who needs clear, reliable guidance right now. And if you have a moment, a five-star review makes a real difference in helping the show reach the people who need it most.

Follow Divorce & Beyond

Website: divorceandbeyondpod.com

Instagram: instagram.com/divorceandbeyondpod

About the Host: Susan Guthrie, Esq. Susan Guthrie is one of the nation's leading family law and mediation attorneys, with more than 35 years of experience helping people navigate divorce with clarity and strategy. She is the Immediate Past Chair of the American Bar Association Section of Dispute Resolution, a best-selling author, and a sought-after speaker and trainer.

Susan recently appeared as the featured expert on The Oprah Podcast and has been cited in The Wall Street Journal, Forbes, Town & Country, The Washington Post, NewsNation, and NBC Chicago Today, among others.

As the creator and host of Divorce & Beyond, ranked in the top 1% of all podcasts worldwide with more than 1.3 million downloads and an Apple Top 100 Self-Help designation, Susan brings together leading legal and mental health experts to help listeners move through divorce and into what comes next.

Learn more at divorceandbeyondpod.com/about.

 

Disclaimer: The commentary and opinions shared on this podcast are for informational and entertainment purposes only and do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state regarding your specific situation.

What do I do first when I find out I'm getting divorced?

It is the number one question people ask the moment divorce becomes real, whether they reached the decision themselves or were just told it is coming. In one of her most-requested solo episodes, Susan Guthrie introduces the concept of Divorce Triage, a clear-headed way to assess your situation and decide who to reach out to first based on the urgency and the needs of your specific case.

Borrowing from the emergency room, Susan explains that when a crisis hits, whether emotional, legal, or financial, you do not have to solve the whole thing at once. You just have to take the right first step. Drawing on more than three decades as a family law attorney and mediator, she walks through the core members of a divorce support team, the attorney, the mediator, the divorce coach, the therapist, and the certified divorce financial analyst, and uses real scenarios to show who your first call should be. From the affair discovery, to the financial betrayal, to the blindsided stay-at-home parent, to the longtime thinker who is finally ready to act, each situation calls for a different first move.

Divorce is not one size fits all, and the first decision you make can shape everything that follows. This episode helps you think clearly and choose carefully, so you move forward with strength and strategy instead of panic.

Episode 1 of 8 in the Divorce & Beyond Summer Essentials Series This summer, Divorce & Beyond brings back 8 the episodes listeners reach for most, the conversations with the clearest, most practical guidance for anyone thinking about, going through, or rebuilding after divorce. New Essentials air every other Monday all summer. Follow the show so you never miss one. The series starts here.

What You'll Learn

Why your first call may not be an attorney, and how to triage who you reach out to based on your circumstances

Who belongs on your divorce support team, the attorney, mediator, divorce coach, therapist, and CDFA, and when to bring each one in

How to take the right first step when betrayal, fear, or financial shock has your emotions all over the place

Why too many voices create confusion, and how to avoid the trap of asking everyone for advice

Susan's golden nugget: why divorce is not a DIY project, and why the first decision you make shapes everything that comes next

If This Episode Helped You Follow Divorce & Beyond so you never miss an episode. Share it with someone who needs clear, reliable guidance right now. And if you have a moment, a five-star review makes a real difference in helping the show reach the people who need it most.

Follow Divorce & Beyond

Website: divorceandbeyondpod.com

Instagram: instagram.com/divorceandbeyondpod

About the Host: Susan Guthrie, Esq. Susan Guthrie is one of the nation's leading family law and mediation attorneys, with more than 35 years of experience helping people navigate divorce with clarity and strategy. She is the Immediate Past Chair of the American Bar Association Section of Dispute Resolution, a best-selling author, and a sought-after speaker and trainer.

Susan recently appeared as the featured expert on The Oprah Podcast and has been cited in The Wall Street Journal, Forbes, Town & Country, The Washington Post, NewsNation, and NBC Chicago Today, among others.

As the creator and host of Divorce & Beyond, ranked in the top 1% of all podcasts worldwide with more than 1.3 million downloads and an Apple Top 100 Self-Help designation, Susan brings together leading legal and mental health experts to help listeners move through divorce and into what comes next.

Learn more at divorceandbeyondpod.com/about.

 

Disclaimer: The commentary and opinions shared on this podcast are for informational and entertainment purposes only and do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state regarding your specific situation.

Kelly Myers has been on Divorce and Beyond twice before. Once to talk about Divorce Day One. Once to help listeners avoid the divorce hangover that follows too many people into their new life. This time, she comes back to share something she has never spoken about publicly: what the loss of her son Jack taught her about years of high-conflict co-parenting, and her hope that every parent still in the middle of it will find a way through differently.

In June of 2024, Kelly lost her son Jack at the age of 23. In the year that followed, she found herself looking back at the years of high-conflict co-parenting that had defined her children's childhoods, and asking questions she could not stop asking.

What role did the conflict play?

What did her children carry because of it?

What would she have done differently if she had known what she knows now?

Kelly reached out and asked to have this conversation here, because she believes that what she learned at great cost is something other parents can still choose to learn a different way.

This is one of the most generous conversations this show has ever had. Susan Guthrie and Kelly explore the real cost of co-parenting conflict on children, what it actually looks like to drop the rope after years of high-conflict engagement, how the ecosystem around a divorce often makes things worse, and what repair looks like when you still have years ahead to offer it.

Covered in this episode:

Why dropping the rope has to start with you, and why waiting for your co-parent to change first means waiting forever

How the divorce ecosystem, including attorneys, family, and friends, can fan the flames of conflict without anyone asking what you actually want to protect

What high-conflict co-parenting looks like through the eyes of the children living inside it, and why each child carries it differently

How the BIFF communication method helped shift a years-long dynamic, and what that looked like in practice

Why it is never too late to begin repair, and what choosing differently right now can mean for the moments still ahead

Referenced Episodes from the Archive:

Day One with a Divorce Coach: First Steps with Kelly Myers

Avoiding the Divorce Hangover From the Start with Kelly Myers

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This week's guest: Kelly Myers

Kelly understands that divorce is one of life's most challenging transitions. She's a divorce and co-parenting coach, mediator, and communication specialist passionate about supporting individuals and families as they move through the complexities of divorce and co-parenting. She partners with clients to understand the divorce process, manage emotional and financial stress, and make strategic decisions throughout their divorce. Her work helps clients stay focused on what matters most while making choices that align with their long-term goals.

Kelly specializes in supporting parents as they discover how to become strong co-parenting partners, even when the romantic relationship has ended. She helps parents see their relationship through a new lens-as partners in raising their children-guiding them to create respectful communication patterns and develop comprehensive, child-centered parenting plans that go far beyond custody schedules. Her approach centers on what children need emotionally and developmentally during this transition, while helping parents maintain a healthy family dynamic across two homes.

In addition to her direct work with clients, Kelly loves mentoring other professionals. She serves as a co-trainer for the Co-Parenting Specialist® Training Program and provides professional development to divorce professionals seeking to use a more client-centered approach. Kelly's deepest commitment is to help families-both the ones she works with directly and those served by the professionals she trains-have less conflict, more cooperation, and real hope for their futures.

Website: http://www.firststepsdivorce.com

LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/kellymyerscoach

Instagram: http://instagram.comfirststeps_divorce

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If This Episode Helped You

Subscribe to Divorce & Beyond so you never miss an episode. Share it with someone who needs clear, reliable guidance right now. And if you have a moment, leaving a five-star review makes a real difference in helping this show reach the people who need it most.

Follow Divorce & Beyond

Website: divorceandbeyondpod.com

Instagram: instagram.com/divorceandbeyondpod

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About Our Host: Susan E. Guthrie, Esq.

Susan E. Guthrie is one of the nation's leading family law and mediation attorneys, with more than 35 years of experience helping individuals navigate divorce with clarity and strategy. She is the Immediate Past Chair of the American Bar Association Section of Dispute Resolution, a best-selling author, and a sought-after speaker and trainer.

Susan recently appeared as the featured expert on The Oprah Podcast and has been cited in The Wall Street Journal, Forbes, The Washington Post, NewsNation, and NBC Chicago Today, among others.

As the creator and host of Divorce & Beyond, ranked in the top 1% of all podcasts worldwide with millions of downloads and an Apple Top 100 Self-Help designation, Susan brings together top legal and mental health experts to help listeners move through divorce and into what comes next.

Learn more at https://divorceandbeyondpod.com/about

Disclaimer: The commentary and opinions shared on this podcast are for informational and entertainment purposes only and do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state regarding your specific situation.