The Innovation Civilization Podcast

• #36 - George Sivulka : Knowledge Work 2.0: The Company Creating The Multi-Agent Future

  We’re joined by George Sivulka, Founder and CEO of Hebbia, for a conversation on how does the future of white collar work look like with multi-agents. Hebbia is backed by some of the most legendary technology investors of our generation including Peter Thiel (early investor: Paypal, Facebook), Marc Andreesen (early investor: Airbnb, Github, Coinbase), Eric Schmidt (ex-CEO Google), Jerry Yang (Co-founder Yahoo). George’s background from Stanford’s PhD program, combined with his work at the cutting edge of AI meta-learning, has led him to a bold mission: to build Hebbia into a generationally important company that captures the full power of the AI revolution, not through chatbots, but through entirely new interfaces for serious, complex work. We dive into: What does the future of white collar/knowledge work look like What the future UX/UI of Agentic AI might be (beyond chatbots). How Hebbia uses multi-agent orchestration to tackle tasks like investment research, drug discovery, and complex analysis. How Hebbia solves hallucination by "citing first, generating second." Why George believes AI won't eliminate jobs, but will transform how we work—and why humans will always find new ways to create value. The lessons George has learned from investors like Peter Thiel and Eric Schmidt about building great companies. We also discuss deeper trends like the geography of AI data centers, the future of inference scaling laws, and why the real competitive advantage won't be technology alone — but taste, orchestration, and human-AI collaboration. Key Takeaways from the Episode: 1.⁠ ⁠Chatbots Are Just the Beginning: George explains why chat is a weak UI for serious work—the future will be spreadsheet-like, matrixed, and human/agent collaborative. 2.⁠ ⁠Multi-Agent Orchestration is Key: Hebbia focuses on orchestrating many AI agents and humans together to handle truly complex, multi-hop tasks across domains. 3.⁠ ⁠Hallucination-Free AI: Hebbia flips the model—retrieving and citing information first, then generating outputs—to ensure accuracy and trust in critical workstreams. 4.⁠ ⁠AI Will Augment, Not Replace Humans: Work will shift from purely human to hybrid models, with humans and AI agents collaborating fluidly rather than one replacing the other. 5.⁠ ⁠Taste and Human Judgment Will Matter More Than Ever: As software creation becomes ubiquitous, taste, creativity, and judgment will be the new moats for great companies. 6.⁠ ⁠The Importance of Geopolitics in AI Infrastructure: George highlights why where data centers are located — and who controls compute — will be a defining factor for global AI leadership. 7.⁠ ⁠Building for the Entire Planet, Not Just One Nation: George’s vision for Hebbia is a global platform for all humanity, regardless of geopolitical shifts. Timestamps: (00:00) - Intro (01:48) - Why is Hebbia a generationally important company shaping the future of civilization? (04:23) - Is the chatbot interface the wrong path for the future of AI user experiences? (06:45) - What core problem is Hebbia solving that current LLMs and AI tools haven’t addressed yet? (09:34) - How does Hebbia tackle AI hallucinations? (13:10) - What will a multi-agent AI future look like for everyday users in the next decade? (15:00) - Will AI replace white-collar jobs first—and what does the future of knowledge work really look like? (19:20) - Is the AI revolution truly different because it introduces general intelligence beyond past technologies? (23:09) - Is the decentralization of knowledge creating a new wave of better scientists outside traditional institutions? (24:11) - Is the rise of no-code and ubiquitous software creation signaling the end of traditional B2B SaaS? (26:54) - How do legendary investors like Eric Schmidt, Peter Thiel, and Jerry Yang influence Hebbia’s strategy and vision? (28:54) - What makes Hebbia stand out as multi-agent AI technology rapidly advances? (30:32) - What AI trend are people not paying enough attention to? (32:31) - How are global shifts in trade and politics shaping the future of AI and company building? (34:25) - How are customers measuring real ROI from their AI investments amid today’s AI boom? (36:23) - Is the true value of AI hidden in the new possibilities it unlocks, beyond just faster tasks? (37:19) - Outro Join us for this electrifying conversation with George Sivulka, where we explore the frontier of AI-human collaboration, the future of work, and how to build enduring technology companies. Follow our host on Linkedln to know more or subscribe to our emailing list to get new episodes directly into your inbox.

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• #35 - Dante Disparte : Fixing Broken Money: The Beginning of the Stablecoin Civilization

  We’re joined by Dante Disparte, Chief Strategy Officer and Head of Global Policy at Circle, one of the biggest issuers of stablecoins (USDC) in the world.   This year marks an important inflexion point for stablecoins as adoption and key regulation kicks in. We’re glad to have some one like Dante who has worked at the intersection of finance, technology, and policy, including his role on the US Digital Currency Governance Consortium and the World Economic Forum. As one of the central figures behind USDC, Circle’s fully-reserved dollar-based stablecoin, he breaks down the real-world applications of stablecoins, how they differ from traditional banking rails, and what this means for billions of people globally.   We dive into: • How traditional banking rails are fundamentally broken, and why stablecoins collapse messaging and settlement into a single, real-time action. • Why USDC is a safer, 1:1 dollar-backed alternative to traditional banking deposits. • How stablecoins are already transforming economic life in emerging markets. • The global policy implications of programmable digital money. • Why this is not about disrupting traditional finance—but completing its unfinished work.   Stablecoins represent a transformative opportunity to rebuild the global financial system in an open, instant, and borderless manner, akin to how the internet revolutionized information sharing. By eliminating intermediaries and leveraging blockchain technology, stablecoins can significantly reduce transaction costs and times, making financial services more accessible and efficient worldwide. This shift has the potential to democratize finance, enabling seamless global commerce and innovation, much like how email and the web democratized communication and information access.    Key Takeaways from the Episode: 1.⁠ ⁠Stablecoins Collapse Messaging and Settlement into One Layer: Unlike traditional systems like SWIFT or PayPal, where a payment is just a message and settlement lags behind, stablecoins like USDC send the actual value along with the message—executing real-time, programmable transactions.   2.⁠ ⁠The World’s Financial Plumbing Is Broken: Slow, expensive, and opaque systems benefit incumbents who profit from delays. Stablecoins offer an open, interoperable alternative—what Dante calls the "Internet of Value."   3.⁠ ⁠USDC is 1:1 Backed – Not Fractional Reserve: Circle holds 100% of reserves in cash and short-term US Treasuries. Fully transparent, independently audited, and free from commingling, USDC is designed for trust at scale.   4.⁠ ⁠Emerging Markets Are Leading Adoption: USDC is being adopted as a store of value and medium of exchange in places with volatile local currencies, enabling billions of unbanked and underbanked users to access the global economy.   5.⁠ ⁠Stablecoins Enable New Forms of Programmable Finance: From streaming payments to tokenized IP ownership, stablecoins unlock composable, automated financial systems. Think of it as building with financial Lego blocks.   6.⁠ ⁠Interoperability Is Key: Circle's Cross-Chain Transfer Protocol (CCTP) and integration with 18+ blockchains allow USDC to operate natively across ecosystems—much like email works across providers.   7.⁠ ⁠Stablecoins vs. CBDCs vs. Bitcoin: Dante lays out why stablecoins (especially private-sector ones) offer better trust, scalability, and flexibility than central bank digital currencies (CBDCs) or highly volatile assets like Bitcoin.   8.⁠ ⁠Global Policy Must Catch Up: Governments should embrace rules-based competition and interoperability, rather than stifling innovation. Stablecoins are not here to replace sovereign currencies—they're here to complete unfinished work in the financial system.   Join us for a masterclass in monetary innovation and policy with one of the most visionary voices in fintech.   Follow our host on Linkedln to know more or subscribe to our emailing list to get new episodes directly into your inbox. Timestamps: (00:00) - Intro (01:28) - What is Stablecoin? (02:15) - How does decentralized digital money differ from early platforms like PayPal? (03:46) - How does money actually settle using SWIFT and traditional banking systems? (05:47) - Why is the traditional global settlement system a black box—and what makes it so outdated? (11:10) - Why does the world need stablecoins in a modern financial system? (16:56) - Why are stablecoins like USDC gaining massive traction in emerging markets? (20:29) - How do mobile money systems like M-Pesa compare to USDC in emerging markets? (23:32) - Is USDC revolutionizing remittance corridors through partnerships in emerging markets? (27:12) - Will USDC become a part of everyday banking and be usable at points of sale? (35:47) - Does USDC operate on a full-reserve model instead of fractional reserve banking? (38:39) - Is USDC’s future too dependent on the U.S. dollar’s global reserve currency status? (45:59) - Can central banks like the Bank of England issue digital currencies on open-source USDC rails? (48:59) - What would a strategic Bitcoin reserve mean for U.S. monetary policy and global finance? (51:26) - Is the U.S. strategy to dominate digital finance through both USDC and Bitcoin reserves? (55:36) - What happens to local currencies if global citizens start holding USDC instead? (59:13) - Can USDC inflows help strengthen foreign exchange reserves in emerging markets like Kenya? (62:32) - What does the future of money and daily finance look like by the year 2100? (64:54) - What key regulations are needed now to shape the future of digital finance? (66:23) - Outro    

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• #34 - Prof. Jomo Kwame Sundaram : Why Most Countries Stay Poor – Growth, Power & Global Myths

  In this episode, we're joined by Professor Jomo Kwame Sundaram, a Malaysian economist and thought leader who served as the Assistant Secretary-General for Economic Development at the United Nations (UN) and Assistant Director-General at the FAO. We explore how countries in the Global South can chart their own paths to prosperity.   What makes a country truly developed? Is it just GDP per capita or something deeper?   Professor Jomo challenges conventional economic dogma—unpacking flawed narratives around FDI, inflation, aid, and industrial policy. With sharp historical insight and grounded realism, he examines why only a few countries have truly made the leap from developing to developed, and what it takes for the rest to follow.   We dive deep into: • Why South Korea’s path to development is so unique—and rarely replicated • The dangers of relying too heavily on foreign direct investment (FDI) • How resource-rich countries like Tanzania and Equatorial Guinea remain poor • The role of good governance—myth vs. reality • Industrial policy and protectionism in the modern age • The myth of the 2% inflation target and the origins of TFP calculations • Why we need whistleblowers in economics to fight mythology   Key Takeaways from the Episode: 1. GDP Isn’t Everything: Professor Jomo argues that true development is about human capabilities—not just high income. Many mineral-rich countries show that high GDP doesn’t guarantee a capable, prosperous society. 2. FDI Is Not a Magic Bullet: Countries like South Korea succeeded by limiting FDI and building domestic capacity. In contrast, over-reliance on foreign capital can lead to wealth extraction without long-term benefits. 3. Governance Indicators Are Circular: Metrics of good governance often reinforce existing biases, labeling developing countries as inherently poor-governed based on narrow criteria. 4. Aid Isn’t Always Altruistic: While aid can help, it often serves political purposes and fails to address structural problems. Misguided advice—like telling Tanzania not to tax gold mining—has impoverished nations further. 5. The Power of Industrial Policy: From the U.S. post-Civil War to modern-day China, industrial policy has always driven real growth. The current revival of protectionism may reshape global trade dynamics. 6. The Myth of the 2% Inflation Target: Professor Jomo dismantles the origin story of the widely accepted 2% inflation target, tracing it back to a political slogan in New Zealand rather than any real economic justification. 7. Emerging Markets Must Think Contextually: There’s no one-size-fits-all model for development. Local conditions, capabilities, and smart policymaking matter more than mimicking the West. 8. Technology’s Role Is Complex: AI and machine learning have vast potential, but without equitable distribution, they may worsen inequality. True progress lies in how benefits are shared.   Join us for this unfiltered, eye-opening episode with Professor Jomo, where we challenge dominant development narratives and explore the real ingredients of economic transformation.   Follow our host on Linkedln to know more or subscribe to our emailing list to get new episodes directly into your inbox.   This conversation is part of the Emerging Market Innovation Series, brought to you in collaboration with Strategic Counsel, where we're also joined by Hafidzi Razali, Founder and CEO of Strategic Counsel.   Timestamps: (00:00) – Introduction to Professor Jomo and his global economic leadership (02:00) – What defines a developed country? Why GDP isn’t enough (05:50) – The FDI trap: Why foreign capital can hinder national development (12:10) – Lessons from Korea, China, and Singapore (17:45) – Mariana Mazzucato, moonshots, and the entrepreneurial state debate (24:00) – Financialization and the decline of real innovation (30:50) – Industrial policy from Hamilton to Biden: A history of protectionism (36:10) – Extractive vs. inclusive institutions: Debating colonial legacy (43:00) – The French CFA zone and the myth of aid (49:30) – Inflation targeting and monetary policy misconceptions (55:00) – Can AI drive growth—or deepen inequality? (60:00) – Final thoughts on building resilient, people-first economies

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• #33 - Benji Leibowitz: What is ‘Decentralized-Science’ & How Will It Transform The Future of Science & Innovation

  In this episode, we had the pleasure of speaking with Benji Leibowitz, Chief Operating Officer at Molecule and Co-Founder of Pump.Science. Benji is at the forefront of the Decentralized Science (DeSci) movement, which utilizes blockchain technology to democratize research funding and empower scientific communities.   Benji Leibowitz has a diverse background in academic research, investment banking, venture capital, and computational biology research and development. At Molecule, he plays a pivotal role in creating a decentralized biotech protocol that connects researchers with funding opportunities through Web3 technologies. Additionally, he leads Pump.Science, a Solana-native DeSci funding platform aimed at gamifying and broadening participation in scientific research. ​   In This Episode, We Explore: • The Challenges in Traditional Science Funding: How centralized funding models limit innovation and how DeSci proposes to address these issues. • The Role of Blockchain in DeSci: Why blockchain is considered the ideal technology for decentralizing scientific research and funding.​ • Introduction to Molecule and Pump.Science: An overview of these platforms and how they aim to revolutionize the way scientific research is funded and conducted.​ • Engaging the Broader Community: How platforms like Pump.Science are gamifying research funding to involve a wider audience in scientific discovery.​ • Advice for Researchers: Encouragement and guidance for scientists interested in exploring decentralized models for their work.​   Key Takeaways: 1. Decentralization Empowers Researchers: By leveraging blockchain technology, researchers can access funding sources beyond traditional institutions, fostering innovation.​ 2. Community Engagement is Crucial: Decentralized platforms enable public participation in scientific research, increasing transparency and trust.​ 3. Blockchain Ensures Transparency: The immutable nature of blockchain records enhances the credibility and reproducibility of scientific findings.​ 4. Gamification Attracts Participation: Introducing game-like elements to research funding can make science more accessible and engaging to the public.​ 5. Future of DeSci: Decentralized Science holds the potential to accelerate scientific discoveries by democratizing access to funding and resources.​   Timestamps: (00:00) - Intro (01:27) - What is decentralized science, and how does it challenge traditional research models? (03:25) - What inefficiencies in traditional science does decentralized science aim to solve? (05:31) - How is decentralized science redefining intellectual property in research and innovation? (12:18) - In today’s fast-moving biotech landscape, does drug exclusivity still hold up for 20 years? (19:18) - Are early-stage anti-aging drugs the future of longevity science? (24:09) - How does decentralized science ensure research credibility and scientific rigor? (26: 08) - In a world of fractionalized IP, how do researchers protect and govern their innovations? (31:53) - Is decentralized science a revolution or just another crypto scam? (33:47) - Can long-term scientific research thrive in the fast-paced, hype-driven crypto market? (44:42) - How can decentralized science integrate with traditional research institutions and publishing models? (47:44) – What career paths and recognition exist for researchers in decentralized science?   Join us for this insightful discussion with Benji Leibowitz as we delve into how decentralization and blockchain technology are transforming the scientific research ecosystem.   Follow our host on Linkedln to know more or subscribe to our emailing list to get new episodes directly into your inbox.

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• #32 - Dr. Soumitra Dutta - How Emerging Markets Can Win the Global AI & Innovation Race?

  In this episode, part of our brand new Emerging Market Innovation Series, we sat down with Soumitra Dutta, Dean of the Saïd Business School at the University of Oxford. He's an expert on global innovation and the author of the Global Innovation Index, which is used by governments and institutions worldwide to shape innovation policy.  We're also joined by a friend of the pod, Hafidzi Razali who's the Founder and CEO of Strategic Counsel, who's an expert on policy-making in South-east Asia and beyond. Innovation is often seen as the driving force behind economic growth, but how can emerging markets build successful innovation ecosystems? We explore the key ingredients required to foster innovation at a national level. Soumitra Dutta has worked at the intersection of academia, business, and policy, serving as the Dean of leading business schools and advising governments on how to create innovation-driven economies. He shares key insights on how emerging markets can learn from global success stories and adapt them to their own unique environments. We dive deep into: • Defining Innovation: How innovation differs from invention and why successful market adoption is key. • National Innovation Strategies: Why political leadership plays a crucial role in fostering innovation. • The Role of Governments: How government policies, procurement, and infrastructure investments can catalyze innovation. • Emerging Market Leadership: Lessons from countries like Singapore, China, and Finland on transforming national economies. • The Role of Talent: Why attracting, developing, and retaining skilled professionals is critical for sustainable innovation. • Measuring Innovation: A breakdown of the Global Innovation Index and how emerging markets can climb the rankings. • Collaboration vs. Competition: Why innovation thrives in open, knowledge-sharing ecosystems. Key Takeaways from the Episode: 1. Innovation Requires Strong Leadership: Countries that successfully foster innovation have strong political leadership that prioritizes R&D, education, and infrastructure. 2. Government as an Enabler: From providing financial incentives to setting up digital infrastructure, how governments can play a key role in ensuring businesses and entrepreneurs can innovate effectively. 3. Why Emerging Markets Need a Unique Strategy: Instead of mimicking Silicon Valley, emerging markets must leverage their strengths, such as market-driven innovations and regulatory flexibility. 4. The Importance of Talent & Immigration: Nations that attract and retain top talent consistently outperform others in innovation. Policies that make it easier for skilled professionals to relocate can accelerate growth. 5. Learning from China & Singapore: China’s strategic long-term investment in innovation and Singapore’s structured approach to attracting businesses provide models that other emerging markets can adapt. 6. Infrastructure as a Foundation: A strong innovation ecosystem needs reliable digital and physical infrastructure, including roads, internet connectivity, and financial systems. 7. The Power of KPIs and Measurement: Innovation must be measured effectively—governments should not just aim to climb rankings but use metrics to improve their weakest links. 8. Open Innovation & Collaboration: The best innovation economies prioritize knowledge-sharing and open-source development over isolationist policies. Timestamps: (00:00) – Introduction to Soumitra Dutta and the Emerging Market Innovation Series (02:10) – What is innovation? Breaking down invention vs. market adoption (05:30) – Why and what kind of government policies are critical for innovation success (10:20) – Lessons from Singapore, China, and Finland on scaling innovation (18:45) – How to achieve leadership & cross-ministry collaboration in national innovation (25:10) – How AI and blockchain are reshaping innovation ecosystems at national levels (30:40) – The importance of attracting top talent to drive innovation (36:50) – Measuring innovation: How the Global Innovation Index works (42:30) – The need for systemic change to improve education, healthcare, and digital infrastructure (50:10) – Why collaboration is more important than competition in driving innovation (56:30) – Closing thoughts and final advice for emerging market leaders Join us in this compelling discussion with Soumitra Dutta, where we uncover the building blocks of national innovation ecosystems and how emerging markets can thrive in the new global economy. Follow our host on Linkedln to know more or subscribe to our emailing list to get new episodes directly into your inbox. This episode is part of the Emerging Market Innovation Series, produced in collaboration with Strategic Counsel.  

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