The Louis Theroux Podcast

Joining Louis in the studio today is award-winning writer and investigative journalist, Patrick Radden Keefe. Patrick tells Louis about his investigation into the Sackler family's involvement in the opioid crisis, how professional criminals keep career longevity, and why he thinks access is overrated. Plus he discusses his latest book, London Falling.

 

Warnings: Strong language and adult themes.  

 

Links/Attachments:  

 

Book: London Falling: A Mysterious Death in a Gilded City and a Family’s Search for Truth, Patrick Radden Keefe (2026) 

https://www.panmacmillan.com/authors/patrick-radden-keefe/london-falling/9781035056279  

 

Book: Say Nothing, Patrick Radden Keefe (2019) 

https://www.waterstones.com/book/say-nothing/patrick-radden-keefe//9780008159269?sv1=affiliate&sv_campaign_id=259955&awc=3787_1770820651_da19805aca482f3e2f7cdd8da31aca44&utm_source=259955&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_campaign=Genie+Shopping+CSS  

 

Book: Empire of Pain, Patrick Radden Keefe (2022) 

https://www.waterstones.com/book/empire-of-pain/patrick-radden-keefe//9781529063103?sv1=affiliate&sv_campaign_id=863943&awc=3787_1770820691_38f3f451369dd9c047c37137a0cb0d42&utm_source=863943&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_campaign=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.octer.co.uk%2F  

 

TV Show: ‘Say Nothing’ (2024) - Hulu 

https://www.channel4.com/programmes/say-nothing  

 

Wolf of Wall Street (2013) 

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0993846/  

 

War Dogs (2016) 

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2005151/  

 

Nightcrawler (2014) 

https://tv.apple.com/gb/movie/nightcrawler/umc.cmc.1h8fjzqshxpg22pa0bm7iho27?action=play  

 

American Psycho (2000) 

https://tv.apple.com/gb/movie/american-psycho/umc.cmc.4k3idfzm0x9j5okdedo2s4l50?action=play  

 

Book: Rogues: True Stories of Grifters, Killers, Rebels and Crooks, Patrick Radden Keefe (2022) 

https://www.panmacmillan.com/authors/patrick-radden-keefe/rogues/9781035001767  

 

Glengarry Glen Ross (1992) 

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0104348/  

 

Article: Larry Gagosian Piece, Patrick Radden Keefe (2023) 

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2023/07/31/larry-gagosian-profile  

 

Book: Hillbilly Elegy, JD Vance, (2017) 

https://www.waterstones.com/book/hillbilly-elegy/j-d-vance/9780008220563  

 

Book: Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother, Amy Chua (2012) 

https://www.waterstones.com/book/battle-hymn-of-the-tiger-mother/amy-chua//9781408822074?sv1=affiliate&sv_campaign_id=259955&awc=3787_1770824539_3e1fda19a55aa22e32d76f01e79f390b&utm_source=259955&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_campaign=Genie+Shopping+CSS   

 

Article: The Sinaloa Drug Cartel, Patrick Radden Keefe (2012) 

https://archive.nytimes.com/6thfloor.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/06/18/behind-the-cover-story-patrick-radden-keefe-on-the-sinaloa-drug-cartel/ 

 

Book: Nazi Billionaires, David De Jong (2023) 

https://www.waterstones.com/book/nazi-billionaires/david-de-jong/9780008299798  

 

Book: Some People Need Killing, Patricia Evangelista (2023) 

https://www.waterstones.com/book/some-people-need-killing/patricia-evangelista/9781804710081  

 

 Book: Killers of the Flower Moon, David Grann (2017) 

https://www.waterstones.com/book/killers-of-the-flower-moon-adapted-for-young-adults/david-grann/9781398528482  

 

TV Show: Industry (2020 – present) - BBC 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/m000pb89/industry  

 

Podcast: Wind of Change (2020 – 2022) - Crooked Media 

https://crooked.com/podcast-series/wind-of-change/  

 

Song: ‘Wind Of Change’, The Scorpions (1990) 

https://open.spotify.com/track/3ovjw5HZZv43SxTwApooCM  

 

Song: ‘Piano Man’, Bill Joel (1973) 

https://open.spotify.com/track/70C4NyhjD5OZUMzvWZ3njJ  

 

Book: The Journalist and the Murderer, Janet Malcolm (1989) 

https://www.londonreviewbookshop.co.uk/stock/the-journalist-and-the-murderer-janet-malcolm  

 

Article: Carl Icahn, Patrick Radden Keefe (2017) 

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/08/28/carl-icahns-failed-raid-on-washington  

 

Credits: 

Producer: Millie Chu  

Production Manager: Francesca Bassett  

Music: Miguel D’Oliveira  

Audio Mixer: Tom Guest 

Video Mixer: Scott Edwards  

Shownotes compiled by Elly Young 

Executive Producer: Arron Fellows  

   

A Mindhouse Studios Production for Spotify  

www.mindhouse.co.uk 

 

__ 

 

 

 

Open a Moneybox Cash ISA at https://moneybox.onelink.me/Cqlx/y3xncge 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Louis sits down with Laufey, Grammy-award winning Icelandic singer and songwriter. Laufey tells Louis about her stratospheric rise to fame on TikTok, partying with Bill Murray, and why everyone can benefit from being a bit bored. Brace yourself for major music geekery.  

Warnings: Strong language and adult themes.  

 

Links/Attachments: 

 

Album: A Matter of Time, Laufey (2025) 

https://open.spotify.com/album/5rMOCuiWWbEBcHaKM69Hmv  

 

Whiplash (2014) 

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2582802/  

 

“The Great American Songbook” 

https://thesongbook.org/about/what-is-the-songbook/  

 

Singing in the Rain (1952)  

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0045152/  

 

An American in Paris (1951) 

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0043278/  

 

On the Town (1949)  

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0041716/  

 

Ziegfeld Follies (1945) 

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0039116/  

 

The Sound of Music (1965)  

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0059742/  

 

Mary Poppins (1964)  

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0058331/  

 

Shirley Temple (1928 – 2014)  

https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000073/  

 

Song: ‘One Note Samba’, Antônio Carlos Jobim (1960) 

https://open.spotify.com/track/1UJQJz6ZP0qKGU55fRDcyI?si=ef59b3251c18423d  

 

Album: Getz/Gilberto, Stan Getz and João Gilberto (1964) 

https://open.spotify.com/album/73ZRKdD3Ds43IjHrhKgucY?si=a1Fe3WkdS7eFZpoH9IYufA  

 

Album: Chet Baker Sings: It Could Happen to You (1958) 

https://open.spotify.com/album/5CNRrD9O1kCaBvN1RyHRdt?si=gK_1vEjQQAmSBs3RWeOAKw  

 

Let’s Get Lost (1988) 

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0095515/  

 

Song: ‘From The Start’, Laufey (2023) 

https://open.spotify.com/track/43iIQbw5hx986dUEZbr3eN?si=4f08726cd6fc4307  

 

Song: ‘It Could Happen to You’, Chet Baker (1958) 

https://open.spotify.com/track/5J8ahRMQ9Y1lRcuAhpP5Fy?si=b55e1844542c44fb  

 

Song: ‘James’, Laufey (2021) 

https://open.spotify.com/track/2y1NtQ2ZfIq0zBUP3tOlbX?si=15ac3bbfa0c74cf7  

 

Song: ‘Mr. Eclectic’, Laufey (2025)  

https://open.spotify.com/track/5n934Lu8pAsAHLc155qzck?si=f9ed9e496ee847d7  

 

Song: ‘Goddess’, Laufey (2024)  

https://open.spotify.com/track/2SEeyc2KS9DIjiJPCYtfgJ?si=a740ddd0858249d6 

 

Song: ‘Creep’, Radiohead (1993) 

https://open.spotify.com/track/70LcF31zb1H0PyJoS1Sx1r?si=ddeef2a9f1e34bdf  

 

Song: ‘Letter To My 13 Year Old Self’, Laufey (2023) 

https://open.spotify.com/track/59Y1f3y8FuLjadWY9Bx2LC?si=2a76c204cb644895  

 

Song: ‘How Soon Is Now?’, The Smiths (1984)  

https://open.spotify.com/track/1YrnDTqvcnUKxAIeXyaEmU?si=05763f85a40041c3  

 

Album: Ella Fitzgerald Sings The Rodgers And Hart Song Book, Ella Fitzgerald (1956) 

https://open.spotify.com/album/3DXgUbJhOxidQC3l0tegY9?si=_42fBZG1SZ2WrNwYoL88VA  

 

Song: ‘Miss Otis Regrets’, Ella Fitzgerald (1956)  

https://open.spotify.com/track/5dvh4M2Lo0aEXp5D0IJGH1?si=fd41d6fba27748df  

 

‘Santa Baby’, Laufey Music Video feat. Bill Murray  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_SsGMeJIHk 

  

Song: ‘Too Little, Too Late’, Laufey (2025)  

https://open.spotify.com/track/1qJnr4Bm7OAauklV18Vdah?si=6fc52bba5b5f48f5  

 

Song: ‘Hallelujah’, Leonard Cohen (1984) 

https://open.spotify.com/track/6s1mt6e0n8G7jcNhcxXKzq?si=400cab129f6d4083 

 

Ballet: Giselle, Royal Ballet & Opera (2026)  

https://www.rbo.org.uk/tickets-and-events/giselle-marius-petipa-details  

 

Book: ‘How to Be an Artist’, Jerry Saltz (2020) 

https://www.waterstones.com/book/how-to-be-an-artist/jerry-saltz/9781781577820  

 

Credits: 

Producer: Millie Chu  

Assistant Producer: Maan al-Yasiri 

Production Manager: Francesca Bassett  

Music: Miguel D’Oliveira  

Audio Mixer: Tom Guest 

Video Mixer: Scott Edwards  

Shownotes compiled by Elly Young 

Executive Producer: Arron Fellows  

   

A Mindhouse Studios Production for Spotify  

www.mindhouse.co.uk 

Open a Moneybox Cash ISA at https://moneybox.onelink.me/Cqlx/y3xncge
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this episode, Louis speaks to comedian, writer and 41st best stand-up ever, Stewart Lee. Stewart tells Louis about taking aim at “Netflix comedians” in his new show, Stewart Lee vs. The Man-Wulf, what went wrong at a disastrous gig at the Royal Albert Hall, and what Elon Musk doesn't understand about comedy.

Warnings: Very strong language and adult themes.

Links/Attachments:

Live Show: Stewart Lee vs. The Man-Wulf, Stewart Lee (2024 – 2026)

⁠https://www.stewartlee.co.uk/live-dates/

Easy Rider (1969)

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0064276/

Song: ‘Jiggle Jiggle’, Louis Theroux with Duke & Jones, (2022)

https://open.spotify.com/track/1I4lCSP69P74nU3a6Su5L2

TV Show Episode: ‘Louis Theroux’s Weird Weekends’, S3 EP6 “Rap” (2000) - BBC

https://tv.apple.com/gb/episode/rap/umc.cmc.7a0aczr1rzkn7k9lhxgks08d1?showId=umc.cmc.1fujlj3xkbu70iu0kh0fmwgd0

TV Show: ‘Blue Peter’ (1958 – present) - CBBC

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/b006md2v/blue-peter

National Security Strategy of The United States of America (November 2025)

https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2025/12/2025-National-Security-Strategy.pdf

Live Show: Stewart Lee on Brexit, (2017)

https://www.stewartlee.co.uk/content-provider/satirical-standup-dissects-brexit-and-the-selfie-generation-as-only-he-can-with-mocking-exasperation/

Thelonious Monk’s Advice:

https://www.openculture.com/2017/12/thelonious-monks-25-tips-for-musicians-1960.html

Stewart Lee, Basic Lee: Live at the Lowry (2022)

https://www.nowtv.com/ie/online/stewart-lee-basic-lee-live-at-the-lowry/A5EK6949itCVNKaChrDXN

TV Show Episode: Stewart Lee’s Comedy Vehicle, S4 EP5 ‘Migrants’ (2016)

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5218362/

Song: ‘Comin’ Over Here’, Asian Dub Foundation ft. Stewart Lee (2020)

https://open.spotify.com/track/4fZdsSko9ScgWoVN6oKUF7

Stewart’s Joke about James Corden:

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/_zjRzgj88HA

Live Show: A Night of Comedy, Teenage Cancer Trust (2026)

https://www.royalalberthall.com/tickets/events/2026/a-night-of-comedy

TV Show: ‘Stewart Lee’s Comedy Vehicle’ (2009-2016)

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1227802/

Book: How I Escaped My Certain Fate, Stewart Lee (2011)

https://www.faber.co.uk/product/9780571254811-how-i-escaped-my-certain-fate/?srsltid=AfmBOor4Z6u2BWF9rR8s7qKz2unYdxREkzS7an0f3Le9r6Yoh0UOqbV4

Jerry Springer: The Opera (2005)

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0441324/

The Wizard of Oz (1939)

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0032138/

TV Special: ‘Dara Ó Briain: So Where Are We? (2023) - BBC

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt31070622/

Elon Musk’s Speech in Trafalgar Square

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSETb5QRLW0

Elon Musk’s Tolkien Bit on The Joe Rogan Podcast

https://metro.co.uk/2025/11/04/elon-musk-branded-dangerous-saying-people-small-town-england-like-hobbits-24609795/

Lord of the Rings Trilogy

https://www.warnerbros.co.uk/movies/lord-rings-trilogy

TV Show: ‘Star Trek’ (1966-1969) - NBC

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0060028/

TV Show: ‘Star Trek: Next Generation’ (1987-1994) - CBS

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0092455/

 

Live Show: ‘90s Comedian’ (2006)

https://www.stewartlee.co.uk/merch_download/90s-comedian/

 

TV Show: ‘Seinfeld’ (1989-1998)

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0098904/

King Rocker (2020)

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt10451082/

TV Special: ‘Stewart Lee: Snowflake’ (2022)

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt22030334/

TV Special: ‘Stewart Lee: Tornado’ (2022)

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt22030350/

Album: Back Door, Back Door (1975)

https://open.spotify.com/album/5j1apHg2nmljcLH2UIKPLq

Credits:

Producer: Millie Chu 

Assistant Producer: Mark Maughan

Production Manager: Francesca Bassett

Music: Miguel D’Oliveira

Audio Mixer: Tom Guest

Video Mixer: Scott Edwards

Shownotes compiled by Elly Young

Executive Producer: Arron Fellows

A Mindhouse Studios Production for Spotify

www.mindhouse.co.uk

Open a Moneybox Cash ISA at https://moneybox.onelink.me/Cqlx/y3xncge
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Louis is joined in the Spotify studio by Scottish singer, actor and TV personality Lulu. The pair discuss her struggles with alcoholism, being married to a Bee Gee, and her intimate knowledge of David Bowie’s thighs.

Warnings: Strong language and adult themes.  

 

Links/Attachments: 

 

Song: ‘Shout’, the Isley Brothers (1959) 

https://open.spotify.com/track/72VH13PSrYh963lzB5NzG4 

 

To Sir, With Love (1967) 

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0062376/  

 

Book: Lulu: I Don’t Want To Fight, Lulu (2020) 

https://www.waterstones.com/book/lulu-i-dont-want-to-fight/lulu/9780751546255  

 

Book: If Only You Knew, Lulu (2025) 

https://www.waterstones.com/book/if-only-you-knew/lulu/9781399744249  

 

TV Show: ‘It’s Lulu’ (1970-1973) - BBC 

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0299320/  

 

TV Show: ‘Lulu’ (1975) - BBC  

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0072537/  

 

Song: ‘Getting To Know You’, Richard Rogers and Oscar Hammerstein III (1951) 

https://open.spotify.com/track/0aGN51LOR5E4zQAqhT1Ok7 (not 1951 version) 

 

Song: ‘Climb Ev’ry Mountain’, Richard Rodgers and Oscar Hammerstein III (1959) 

https://open.spotify.com/track/5ewWvQPbrBf8Z9TKmYaRY6 (not 1959 version) 

 

TV Show: ‘Happening For Lulu’ (1968-1969) - BBC 

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0063926/  

 

Jimi Hendrix on Lulu’s show (1969) 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Usel2OAtQ_s&list=RDUsel2OAtQ_s&start_radio=1 

 

TV Show: ‘Not Only...But Also’ (1965-1970) - BBC 

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0128004/  

 

Article: Jimi Hendrix Banned from BBC  

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p032vp1d  

 

Song: ‘The Man Who Sold the World’, Lulu (1974) 

https://open.spotify.com/track/36jha42uJrGq7Ew9REPLIo  

 

Song: Boom Bang a Bang', Lulu (1969) written by Alan Moorhouse and Peter Warne 

https://open.spotify.com/track/67HolMSJIT9IMPhxieOHeu  

 

TV Special: ‘When Louis Met... Jimmy’ (2000) - BBC  

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0304938/  

 

Louis Theroux: Savile (2016)  

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07yc9zh  

 

TV Show: ‘Jim’ll Fix It’ (1975-2007) - BBC  

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0197163/  

 

The Bee Gees: How Can You Mend a Broken Heart (2020) 

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt9850386/  

 

Saturday Night Fever (1977) 

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0076666/  

 

Song: ‘Night Fever’, The Bee Gees (1977)  

https://open.spotify.com/track/4t2euPkyLUs5n5j1HDZ2Tr  

 

Song: ‘To Love Somebody’, The Bee Gees (1967) written by Barry and Robin Gibb 

https://open.spotify.com/track/0mbS3VwRbO6HVBMPXnzOGA  

 

Song: ‘Woman In Love’, Barbra Streisand (1980) written by Barry and Robin Gibb 

https://open.spotify.com/track/1pTGc8pwyo6xtgXBKCBcFn 

 

Song: ‘Chain Reaction’, Diana Ross (1985)  

https://open.spotify.com/track/1it9umP1j9qSqzKbSLLqqy  

 

TV Special: ‘An Audience with Lulu’ (2002) - ITV 

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0788014/  

 

Lulu’s Mental Health Trust 

https://www.lulusmentalhealthtrust.com/  

 

Credits: 

Producer: Millie Chu  

Assistant Producer: Mark Maughan 

Production Manager: Francesca Bassett  

Music: Miguel D’Oliveira  

Audio Mixer: Tom Guest 

Video Mixer: Scott Edwards  

Shownotes compiled by Elly Young 

Executive Producer: Arron Fellows  

   

A Mindhouse Production for Spotify  

www.mindhouse.co.uk  

Open a Moneybox Cash ISA at https://moneybox.onelink.me/Cqlx/y3xncge
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this episode, Louis speaks with Kyle MacLachlan, muse of iconic director David Lynch and internet “babygirl”. Kyle tells Louis about working with Lynch on Twin Peaks and Blue Velvet, why he will never watch Paul Verhoeven’s Showgirls, and going viral on TikTok.  

Watch Season 2 of Fallout on Prime Video now.  

 

Warnings: Strong language and adult themes.  

 

Links/Attachments: 

 

TV Show: ‘Fallout’ (2024 - Now) - Prime Video 

http://amazon.co.uk/gp/video/detail/B0FLT3NNDQ/ref=atv_dp_season_select_s2 

 

TV Show: Twin Peaks (1990) - ABC 

https://www.paramountplus.com/gb/shows/twin_peaks/ 

 

Blue Velvet (1986) 

https://tv.apple.com/gb/movie/blue-velvet/umc.cmc.33lsrdtequl92bh2q4qufz09j?action=play 

 

Easy Rider (1969) 

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0064276/  

 

Apocalypse Now (1979) 

https://tv.apple.com/gb/movie/apocalypse-now/umc.cmc.34p6g8esi62ncametagl3s7ao?action=play  

 

Eraserhead (1977) 

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0074486/  

 

The Elephant Man (1980) 

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080678/ 

 

Dune (1984)  

https://tv.apple.com/gb/movie/dune/umc.cmc.7edgw5obp2gwx0xsyhla10zbc?action=play  

 

Instagram Post: Kyle about David Lynch 

https://www.instagram.com/p/DE5pC5RyH29/?hl=en&img_index=1  

 

Dune (2021) 

https://tv.apple.com/gb/movie/dune/umc.cmc.2l7qj9p33t3jww1roxi8cgiw5?action=play  

 

White Nights (1985) 

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0090319/  

 

TV Show: Portlandia (2011-2018) - IFC 

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1780441/  

 

TV Show: Desperate Housewives (2004 – 2012) - ABC 

https://tv.apple.com/gb/episode/pilot/umc.cmc.1nlhsa37c9fb3k7i79tls86l4?showId=umc.cmc.764fqtvvzfic5cig1ubycwn4&action=playSmartEpisode  

 

TV Show: Sex and the City (1989 – 2004) - HBO 

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0159206/  

 

The Hidden (1988) 

https://tv.apple.com/gb/movie/the-hidden/umc.cmc.xpfv9tdbmpijtg30s9sofdq7?action=play  

 

The Doors (1991) 

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0101761/  

 

Showgirls (1995) 

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0114436/  

 

Podcast: What Are We Even Doing? With Kyle MacLachlan - IHeartPodcasts 

https://open.spotify.com/show/4Q0EAcipmnanJtijhZR4Id  

 

Monty Python and the Holy Grail (1975) 

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071853/  

 

Monty Python’s Life of Brian (1979) 

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0079470/  

 

TikTok Post: Kyle’s viral post 

https://www.tiktok.com/@kyle_maclachlan/video/7561193641553726750  

 

TV Show: ‘How I Met Your Mother’ (2005 – 2014) - CBS 

https://tv.apple.com/gb/episode/pilot/umc.cmc.3gahlb7gzcf4n4vm56n4et5um?showId=umc.cmc.hrenotb7pqaz2mo61vph1gwj&action=playSmartEpisode  

 

RoboCop (1987) 

https://www.itv.com/watch/robocop/ROBOCOP/CFD2301a0001  

 

Inland Empire (2006) 

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0460829/  

 

TV Show: ‘The Last of Us’ (2023 – Now) - HBO 

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3581920/  

 

‘Dennis Hopper’s Best Moments as Frank’ - Youtube 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1CQgHeoe14 

 

M (1931)  

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0022100/  

 

Credits: 

Producer: Millie Chu  

Assistant Producer: Mark Maughan 

Production Manager: Francesca Bassett  

Music: Miguel D’Oliveira  

Audio Mixer: Tom Guest 

Video Mixer: Scott Edwards  

Shownotes compiled by Elly Young 

Executive Producer: Arron Fellows  

   

A Mindhouse Production for Spotify  

www.mindhouse.co.uk  

Open a Moneybox Cash ISA at https://moneybox.onelink.me/Cqlx/y3xncge
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices