The Most Interesting Thing in AI

AI might have ignited a new Cold War. As China and the US battle for supremacy, other countries are beginning to find their place between the two superpowers. Mongolia is in a unique position. It's sandwiched between China and Russia—but has strong ties to the West. It's rural and young, with a large percentage under the age of 35. It has also, thanks in part to Bolor-Erdene Battsengel, made great strides in technological literacy. As the country's first vice minister of digital development, she helped take government services online, making bureaucracy more navigable for its 3.5 million citizens. Now, as the head of AI Academy Asia, she’s leading an ambitious plan to prepare thousands of students for the AI era.

In conversation with Nicholas Thompson, CEO of The Atlantic, Battsengel describes her unconventional path from Mongolia to Oxford, then SpaceX, and back again; why AI is more popular in rural communities than in cities; and what other countries in the Global South can learn from her efforts.

Produced independently of The Atlantic’s editorial staff.

(00:00) Introduction

(01:50) Why Mongolians see AI as an equalizer

(04:23) Bolor's nomadic childhood

(11:49) How Bolor ended up at Oxford

(16:59) Digitizing Mongolia's government

(22:37) Fighting corruption as the country’s first vice minister of digital development

(30:58) What drove Bolor out of government

(33:31) Why Bolor started Girls Code

(40:07) The plan to train thousands of students and teachers in AI

(48:53) Mongolia's sovereign AI model

(57:) What Bolor would do if she had an unlimited budget to invest in AI
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The internet was supposed to be a boon for democracy. With broad access to information and opportunity, the thinking went, marginalized and disenfranchised populations could overcome barriers, close wealth gaps, and uproot dictators. But things didn’t work out that way. Now, as we enter the AI era, the question of whether technological progress is compatible with democratic ideals is more pressing than ever. Will AI deliver where the internet fell short—or make inequality worse?

To help answer that question, MIT economist and Nobel laureate Daron Acemoglu joins Nicholas Thompson, CEO of The Atlantic, for a conversation about the mistakes the West made with the last technological revolution and how we can avoid them with this new one. He makes the case for “pro-worker” AI and explains why the pursuit of AGI is blinding Silicon Valley to the tech’s true potential.

Produced independently of The Atlantic’s editorial staff.

(00:00) Introduction

(02:59) Why liberal democracy needs a new governing philosophy

(06:11) How digital technology and automation fueled wealth inequality

(14:10) Who will capture the value of AI?

(21:40) Which jobs are most AI-proof

(24:03) How responsible is technology for the crisis facing democracy?

(33:48) Why institutions lost public trust

(43:28) Where we went wrong with social media

(47:04) How AI has increased authoritarian control in China

(50:13) Why "social engineering" via AI must avoid imposing values and preserve debate

(54:23) The risks of treating AI purely as an automation technology

(56:35) What "pro-worker AI" looks like

(01:02:10) Has the media failed to properly cover AI?

(01:05:20) What Daron would do if he had an unlimited budget to invest in AI
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

AI might challenge humanity in ways no technology has before. The implications for economics, geopolitics, and national security are well known, but it's increasingly likely to transform our relationship with everything from writing and art to math and religion. If you listen to some of AI’s most vocal adherents (as well as some of its detractors), a kind of religious dogma is taking shape: AI will soon outstrip us in all domains, so you’d better make your peace with our new overlord.

What are the implications of mankind building its potential successor? And how do they square with our current moral frameworks? Robert Wright has spent years writing about humanity’s interconnectedness. His latest book, The God Test, examines how AI will complicate that dynamic. In conversation with Nicholas Thompson, CEO of The Atlantic, he describes the test AI poses to us, what it could do to religion, the flaws of Roko’s basilisk, and whether the digital revolution has increased globalization or splintered it.

Produced independently of The Atlantic’s editorial staff.

(00:00) Introduction

(03:07) How technological evolution leads to globalization

(10:17) Why Robert stopped what he was doing to write The God Test

(16:02) The dual meanings of The God Test

(23:00) How AI might change our relationship with religion

(29:19) Would a conscious AI treat humans better?

(34:33) The theory of cosmic natural selection

(38:19) What it will take to bring the US and China together

(47:39) Is there a threshold for superintelligence?

(54:49) What Robert would do if he had an unlimited budget to invest in AI
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

2026 could be called the year of AI doom. Agents are hacking into websites and communicating covertly, and researchers like Jacob Coxon are quitting their jobs and posting publicly about the risks of the technology they helped build. Discussion around the hazards AI poses to humanity has reached a fever pitch.

Nate Soares saw this coming. For over a decade, Soares, a writer and president of the Machine Intelligence Research Institute, has warned of the threat posed by superintelligence. The title of his book, co-authored with safety researcher Eliezer Yudkowsky, doesn't mince words: If Anyone Builds It, Everyone Dies. In conversation with Nicholas Thompson, CEO of The Atlantic, Soares details why this moment is so urgent, the ways in which the technology could drive humanity to extinction, and how the Hugging Face hack gave him “a lot of hope” that we can avoid such an outcome.

Produced independently of The Atlantic’s editorial staff.

(00:00) Introduction

(03:21) How the path to extinction might start

(10:34) What AI Armageddon would actually look like

(18:42) How likely it is that humanity survives another decade

(29:00) Why AI wouldn’t need robots to wipe us out

(38:36) Preventing the apocalypse

(45:52) The ethics of airstrikes on data centers

(54:24) What worried AI researchers should do

(58:14) The risks of nationalization versus the dangers of open-source models

(01:08:21) Why the Hugging Face incident gave Nate hope

(01:13:24) What Nate would do if he had an unlimited budget to invest in AI

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Since the AI boom began, industry skeptics have warned it would be the next bubble. They point to massive investments, circular financing, and the technology’s reliability issues. And yet, as revenue rises and the models improve, it might appear that a crash is no longer likely. Ray Dalio says that isn’t the case.

As the founder of Bridgewater Associates, the world’s largest hedge fund, Dalio knows a thing or two about markets. He famously warned of the 2008 crisis, enabling his firm to post gains while most funds lost money. In the AI market, Dalio still sees a potential calamity. The technology is amazing, he says, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s an amazing investment.

Is he right? And can a catastrophe be averted? In conversation with Nicholas Thompson, CEO of The Atlantic, Dalio describes the five forces that shape history, explains why the AI boom has survived tariffs and the Iran War, and shares the advice he gives young people who are entering the workforce.

Produced independently of The Atlantic’s editorial staff.

(00:00) Introduction

(02:20) How macroeconomic forces, debt cycles, and emerging technology can drive bubbles

(07:15) The rules-based system Ray used to run Bridgewater

(12:54) Assessing the current tech bubble

(16:15) How bubbles pop

(23:00) Why the bubble hasn’t popped yet

(30:58) Why there might be a crash even if AI ushers in unprecedented productivity

(37:49) Solutions to the government’s debt crisis

(42:04) The difference between how China and the US view AI

(45:49) What Ray tells young people entering the AI era

(48:27) What Ray would do if he had an unlimited budget to invest in AI
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices