Here are three provocative questions that emerge from this Change Signal conversation with Michael Norton:
Can we ever escape ritual?
Why is ambiguous loss harder to process than clear grief?
How can we honour the past while creating a new identity?
Most change leaders assume ritual is all incense and corporate retreats. Harvard Business School professor Michael Norton sees it differently.
His research shows that the most powerful organizational rituals aren’t the big, top-down ones imposed by leadership. They’re the small, everyday practices teams invent for themselves — like who brings lunch on which day, or clicking emojis at the start of Zoom calls.
Norton also introduces the idea of ambiguous loss: the grief we feel when something hasn’t clearly ended but has fundamentally changed. Think of keeping old business cards from a company that no longer exists. This kind of loss is everywhere during organizational change — yet it’s rarely acknowledged.
The answer isn’t to erase all the old or dictate the new. Like blended families inventing fresh holiday traditions, successful change preserves meaningful parts of the past while creating new rituals for the future.
If you’re leading transformation and wondering why people resist seemingly small changes, this conversation will reshape how you think about the human side of organizational change.
Change Signal. Cut through the blather, the BS, and the noise to find the good stuff that works in change. If you’re a transformational leader, this is where you seek and find modern change mastery.
***
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The Change Signal newsletter. Short, practical, weekly
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29:54
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29:54
The Four Change Friction Traps: Loran Nordgren
Here are three big questions that Loran Nordgren asks in the question for modern change mastery:
Are you accidentally creating resistance by making your ideas sound too revolutionary?
What if the anxieties you're avoiding are exactly what you need to address?
Why does pushing harder on change often make things worse?
Loran Nordgren, a behavioural theory professor at Northwestern's Kellogg School, flips change management on its head. Instead of focusing on making ideas more appealing, he argues we should be removing psychological friction.
His "fuel versus friction" framework reveals why breakthrough changes often fail. The issue isn't that people don't see the value — it's that invisible barriers are holding good ideas back.
You'll discover why framing change as "evolution" works better than "revolution." Loran shares practical tactics like the South by Southwest email templates that doubled attendance without flashy marketing.
Most provocatively, he suggests that many of our change intuitions don't just fail — they actually amplify resistance. This conversation challenges how you think about urgency, buy-in, and the role of anxiety in organizational change.
If you're tired of change initiatives stalling despite obvious benefits, this episode offers a different lens for diagnosing what's really going wrong.
Change Signal. Cut through the blather, the BS, and the noise to find the good stuff that works in change, transformation, and growth.
***
WHEN YOU’RE READY
🎧 A new episode every week (and sometimes two!)
The Change Signal newsletter. Short, practical, weekly
***
CONNECT
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SAY THANKS
💜Leave a review on Apple Podcasts
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31:23
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31:23
Power Literacy for Change Leaders: Larissa Conte
Here’s what Larissa Conte asks us about modern change mastery:
Is “power” something that’s learned and usable?
What might happen if we focused on possibilities rather than problems?
How can you expand your ability to handle more success “wattage”?
My guest Larissa Conte calls herself a "power alchemist" — which will either intrigue you or make you roll your eyes. Either way, stick with this conversation.
Larissa argues that "power literacy" is the skeleton key that unlocks every other leadership skill. She distinguishes between "shadow power" (the stuff that creates headwinds and dysfunction) and "power that serves the whole" (the energy that creates flow and momentum).
Here's what's provocative: she suggests that as change leaders, we're often unconsciously sabotaging our own efforts. We resist not just threats to our ego, but also being truly seen and acknowledged for our capabilities.
The practical insight? If you want transformation to stick, you need to give at least 51% of your focus to what you want to create, not what you're trying to fix.
This isn't your typical change management conversation. Larissa brings embodied wisdom to organizational transformation, helping you recognize when you're creating headwinds versus flow in your change initiatives.
Change Signal. Cut through the blather, the BS, and the noise to find the good stuff that works in change. If you’re a transformational leader seeking modern change mastery, you’re in exactly the right place.
WHEN YOU’RE READY
🎧 A new episode every week (and sometimes two!)
The Change Signal newsletter. Short, practical, weekly
***
CONNECT
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***
SAY THANKS
💜Leave a review on Apple Podcasts
💚Leave a review on Spotify
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34:28
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34:28
How to 3x Training Results: Chris Taylor
Here are three big questions that arise from this Change Signal conversation with Chris Taylor:
Are your high-stakes moments sabotaging skill development?
Why practice once when you could daily?
What if home practice beats workplace training?
My friend Chris Taylor, founder of Actionable, has spent eighteen years obsessing over what Bob Sutton calls the "knowing-doing gap." Why do people get inspired in training rooms but then struggle to change their actual behaviour?
Chris shares a simple but profound matrix that reveals why so much workplace development creates "brittle commitments" that shatter under pressure. The problem isn't the content — it's that we're asking people to try new behaviours only when the stakes are highest and stress hormones are flooding their systems.
His data from 7,000 programs shows something counterintuitive: the secret isn't better training content, it's turning situational commitments into foundational daily practice. Think of it like sports—professionals don't practice when they're playing.
The most powerful insight? When people practice workplace skills in their personal relationships, success rates double again because the meaning deepens and opportunities multiply.
If you're leading change initiatives, this conversation will shift how you think about embedding new behaviours in your organization.
Change Signal. Where transformational change leaders seek and find modern change wisdom. Cut through the blather, the BS, and the noise to find the good stuff that works.
***
WHEN YOU’RE READY
🎧 A new episode every week (and sometimes two!)
The Change Signal newsletter. Short, practical, weekly
***
CONNECT
💼Connect on LinkedIn
***
SAY THANKS
💜Leave a review on Apple Podcasts
💚Leave a review on Spotify
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16:48
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16:48
Why Curiosity Drives Change Capacity: Scott D. Anthony
Here are three big questions that arise from this Change Signal conversation with Scott D. Anthony:
What's systematically killing curiosity in your organization?
Can you hold your team in that sweet spot between comfort and chaos? And
Are your excuses actually avoiding the real work of transformation?
Scott D. Anthony, Clinical Professor of Business Administration at Tuck and innovation strategist, challenges how we think about change leadership in large organizations. Most companies lose their curiosity, focusing only on whether spreadsheet numbers add up — a pretty boring question.
The real work is building adaptive capacity through deliberate discomfort. You need people uncomfortable enough to learn but not so uncomfortable that they shut down or find scapegoats.
Scott shares the remarkable DBS Bank transformation story, from Singapore's lowest-ranked bank to globally recognized innovator. Their secret weapon? The Gandalf scholarship program that generated 30x returns on learning investments.
And here's where it gets interesting: successful leaders develop paradoxical thinking. They perceive danger while staying optimistic, allocate resources while avoiding rigidity.
Here’s where he gets helpfully provocative: When leaders say, "I wish I could, but my shareholders won't let me," that's just avoiding hard work. Every organization claims its situation is uniquely difficult — it's not.
Change management isn't about finding better excuses. It's about building curiosity, managing productive discomfort, and developing the mental agility to hold competing truths.
Change Signal. For transformational leaders seeking modern change mastery. Cut through the blather, the BS, and the noise to find the good stuff that works.
***
WHEN YOU’RE READY
🎧 A new episode every week (and sometimes two!)
The Change Signal newsletter. Short, practical, weekly
***
CONNECT
💼Connect on LinkedIn
***
SAY THANKS
💜Leave a review on Apple Podcasts
💚Leave a review on Spotify
If you’re leading change in organizations, this will be your favourite podcast.
Change is harder than ever. Transformation is more complex, unpredictable and overwhelming than it’s ever been. Change Signal cuts through the noise to find the good stuff that works.
Michael Bungay Stanier, author of The Coaching Habit and organizational transformation student for thirty years, talks to the best thinkers, senior leaders, and experienced practitioners in the world of change, to find what works, what doesn’t, and what to try instead. With Change Signal as your guide, you’ll be more efficient and less overwhelmed, and your change projects will more likely succeed.
Change Signal: Where we cut through the blather, the BS, and the noise to find the good stuff that works.
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