A Rational Fear

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In this episode, we explore Australia's energy transition, climate policy, and innovative initiatives like the world's largest veggie burger lesson powered by electric vehicles. Guest Thom Woodroofe shares insights on policy levers, sustainability, and Australia's future in the global green economy.

Thom has a book — you can check it out here: https://publishing.monash.edu/product/power-prosperity-planet/

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This week Dan and Lewis Hobba are joined by independent journalist Michael West of Michael West Media — who's being sued by BHP, Australia's biggest company, over his reporting on coal miner Simon Turner's decade-long fight for compensation. Turner broke his back at BHP's Mount Arthur mine in 2015, was misclassified as a "clerical worker," and paid $400 a week for a job whose award rate is $137,000 a year. Sitting behind the lawsuit is a potentially $10 billion labour hire wage theft scandal involving Chandler Macleod and Coal LSL — and the awkward fact that BHP, a $300 billion company, is also the major sponsor of the Walkley Awards while using Minter Ellison to muzzle a four-person independent newsroom.

🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear
Here's all the fun stuff you get when you sign up to Patreon.
🎧 Get an ad-free and sponsor free version of the show.
🎟 Get early access and discounts to live shows.
🎥 Get early access to final videos, and draft edits of upcoming videos.
👨🏼‍⚖️ Make show suggestions.
💬 Get a link to the A Rational Fear discord.
If you enjoyed this please drop us a review on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/a-rational-fear/id522303261a
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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This week former Industry & Science Minister Ed Husic joined us in the A Rational Fear bunker to chat about the big fault lines where Labor's values meet Labor's actions — gas exports, the Iran strikes, Pauline's rise, and how you actually get things done when your own party doesn't always want to hear it.
Ed was frank, funny, and refreshingly honest about the messiness of politics from the inside. Lewis came armed with the hard questions and didn't let up. And Dan tried to get Ed to endorse non-lethal Wedge-tail aircraft parts. It's that kind of show.

April 16th: I’ll be hosting this very interesting keynote lunch about democracy, satire, and why Scott Dikkers from the Onion won’t be allowed back into the United States. Andrew Nash was the technical adviser on Silicon Valley, and John Delmenico (friend of the show) is one of the sharpest brains in comedy in Australia — you know him and laugh at his work everyday on The Chaser’s socials. https://businessofcomedy.com/schedule/lunch-keynote-why-we-need-satire-for-a-healthy-democracy/

🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear
Here's all the fun stuff you get when you sign up to Patreon.
🎧 Get an ad-free and sponsor free version of the show.
🎟 Get early access and discounts to live shows.
🎥 Get early access to final videos, and draft edits of upcoming videos.
👨🏼‍⚖️ Make show suggestions.
💬 Get a link to the A Rational Fear discord.
If you enjoyed this please drop us a review on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/a-rational-fear/id522303261a
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Recorded live at Climate Action Week Sydney, this episode of A Rational Fear dives deep into the rise of the far right, fossil-fuel-funded disinformation, and what it all means for Australia’s climate future and democracy.
Host Dan Ilic is joined on stage by:
Malcolm Turnbull – former Prime Minister, now “concerned private citizen”
Ed Coper – communications strategist and author of Angertainment
Kate Hook – farmer, regional community leader, and two-time community independent candidate (Climate 200 co-convener)
Across this wide-ranging conversation, they unpack:
Why the far right’s culture war is such a serious threat to climate action
How “anger-tainment” media ecosystems (hello Sky News) and social platforms reward disinformation
The inside story on fossil-fuel-backed campaigns, from Clive Palmer to astroturf outfits like “Australians for Prosperity”
The existential crisis inside the Liberal Party and the risks of preferencing One Nation
How regional communities are actually embracing renewables when they control the process and share the benefits
The rise of community independents and why ordinary people, not party machines, are now driving political change
It’s funny, bleak, hopeful, and occasionally unhinged—classic Rational Fear.

Key Topics
Climate politics & the far right
Turnbull on why opposition to climate action has become “religion” rather than economics
How internal Liberal/National dynamics warped energy policy around coal and renewables
“Angertainment” & the media ecosystem
Ed Coper explains how social media rewards outrage and emotional extremes
How a small 7–10% anti-climate minority ends up feeling like 50% of the country
The dangers of amplifying fringe narratives until they look mainstream
Disinformation playbook & fossil fuel money
Coordinated disinformation in the 2025 federal election, including:
~$80m in fossil-fuel-aligned spending
Front groups like Australians for Prosperity attacking pro-climate independents
Intimidatory tactics, rotating party shirts, and creepy “Don’t get hooked” billboards
The global network of think tanks and astroturf groups exporting the same anti-climate tactics to Australia
Liberal Party’s existential crisis
Why Turnbull thinks there are “virtually no moderates” left federally
How chasing One Nation on immigration and culture wars strengthens One Nation, not the Libs
The potential fallout if the Liberals preference One Nation in seats like Farrer
Community independents & regional hope
Kate Hook’s experience campaigning in Calare and working in Hay and other regional communities
How structured community engagement turns hostility toward renewables into enthusiasm when locals control the benefits
The independent “ecosystem”: thousands of volunteers, trusted local messengers, and evidence-based policymaking
The big question: how do we eventually get these independents from the crossbench into government and cabinet?
How to fight disinformation
Turnbull on why “ignore it and don’t give it oxygen” no longer works
The “whack-a-mole” and inoculation approach: pre-bunking lies and relentlessly correcting them
The importance of better stories, not just better facts
Power, agency & what listeners can do
Why grievance parties like One Nation don’t have real solutions—only easy pills for complex problems
Community organizing, local campaigns, and supporting independents as the real counterweight to fossil fuel money
“There’s no cavalry coming over the hill” – why we are the ones we’ve been waiting for

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What a great episode to end the year on. It's magic when the guests are good old friends with time under their belts, joy in their hearts and stupidity in their mouths.
Kirsten Drysdale's new YouTube show is crushing it, she reviews creators on the internet — The Internet Reviewed

Sami Shah you can find weekly on Patreon making podcasts and thoughtful posts — News Weakly
This week we cover a deeply important threat to democracy as we know it; The US State Department calling the Calibri font woke, we cash in on politician entitlements, and we try to decipher who 36 Months are and what they really want. Cam Wilson at Crikey.com.au has done some great work over the last year on the teenage social media ban — and this 36 Months story is developing fast. It's worth a sub to Cam and Crikey to follow it as it unfolds.

There's also and end of year quiz, and for some reason we talk about Jimmy Fallon and tech bros.
There's a lot going on — but it's a fun 45minutes hanging with funny friends.
Couldn't think of a better way to spend a road trip.

Happy Christmas to you all — we'll be back after Australia Day with some more A Rational Fear episodes, and perhaps the odd secret gig. To find out more sign up to our Patreon!

🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear

Here's all the fun stuff you get when you sign up to Patreon.

🎧 Get an ad-free and sponsor free version of the show.
🎟 Get early access and discounts to live shows.
🎥 Get early access to final videos, and draft edits of upcoming videos.
👨🏼‍⚖️ Make show suggestions.
💬 Get a link to the A Rational Fear discord.

If you enjoyed this please drop us a review on Apple podcasts:

https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/a-rational-fear/id522303261
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.