Uncommon Ground with Talal Yassine

What happens when the person appointed to combat Islamophobia discovers that parts of the very community he is meant to serve don’t trust him?

In this episode of Uncommon Ground, Professor Talal Yassine sits down with Aftab Malik, Australia’s Islamophobia envoy, for a wide-ranging and unusually candid conversation about identity, faith, social cohesion and the growing divisions shaping Australian society.

Aftab traces an unlikely path from a protected childhood in Bristol, the only son among four sisters, obsessed with books, cricket and Islamic history, to years spent studying the relationship between Islam and the West. He reflects on how September 11 transformed his career, why ignorance about Islam has grown rather than diminished over the past 25 years, and how social media is creating an environment where people increasingly “demonise and dehumanise” those with whom they disagree.

The conversation then turns to Australia. Aftab explains why Muslims should not have to choose between being Muslim and Australian, recounts a decade working on social cohesion and radicalisation inside government, and reveals the hostile reception he received after accepting the envoy role.

Talal also challenges Aftab on the criticisms surrounding his appointment, the government's response to his Islamophobia report, recommendations that remain unresolved, and the disparity between government responses to antisemitism and Islamophobia.

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Episode Running Order

Aftab’s childhood in Bristol and growing up in a close Pakistani family (00:00:57)
• Education, family influences and growing up surrounded by his sisters (00:02:27)
• Being a self-confessed “nerd” and developing a lifelong love of learning (00:06:32)
• A life without a grand career plan and following opportunities as they emerged (00:08:08)
• Studying Islam, history and theology and discovering how much there was still to learn (00:11:52)
• Cricket, travel and his first experience of Australia as a teenager (00:14:44)
• How September 11 transformed his career and drew him into debates about Islam and the West (00:18:00)
• Why Aftab believes ignorance about Islam and Muslims has grown over the past 25 years (00:20:12)
• Social media, misinformation and the growing inability to disagree respectfully (00:24:09)
• Working with governments while maintaining his intellectual independence (00:30:56)
• The decline of the Ottoman Empire, modernity and the relationship between Islam and the West (00:36:10)
• Why being Muslim and being Australian should never be competing identities (00:45:29)
• Joining government and approaching radicalisation as a social rather than simply a policing problem (00:56:12)
• Learning how government really works and the lessons from his first bureaucratic brief (00:57:28)
• Moving from the NSW Government to Australia’s Islamophobia envoy in just two days (01:02:23)
• Responding to accusations that he was appointed by government to “sell out” the Muslim community (01:07:51)
• The hostile reception to his appointment and his six-week “baptism by fire” across Australia (01:10:35)
• Criticism, accountability and where Aftab draws the line between disagreement and personal attacks (01:18:29)
• The challenge of building the envoy’s office while travelling, consulting, writing and engaging with the media (01:22:28)
• The Islamophobia report and whether the Federal Government’s response went far enough (01:24:58)
• The recommendations that remain unresolved, including religious discrimination and counter-terrorism laws (01:27:21)
• Comparing Australia’s responses to Islamophobia and antisemitism and the question of unequal treatment (01:32:42)
• The impact of the Bondi terror attack on government and community responses (01:33:13)
• Whether Australia can rebuild social cohesion amid growing polarisation and division (01:34:54)
• Why Aftab believes Australia is in a “very dangerous space” — and what still gives him hope (01:35:33)
• Quickfire questions: misconceptions, guilty pleasures and the importance of having time to think (01:37:24)
• The legacy Aftab hopes to leave: bringing people together to better understand one another (01:38:20)
• The advice he would give his 18-year-old self: “It all ends well” (01:39:01)
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In this episode of Uncommon Ground Talal Yassine sits down with Penny Bingham Hall, one of Australia’s most respected company directors and a former senior executive at Leighton Holdings.
Penny reflects on her childhood, her parents’ migration to Australia, and the values of confidence, education and independence that shaped her. She shares how a background in industrial design unexpectedly led her into construction, infrastructure, strategy and eventually the boardrooms of some of Australia’s largest organisations.
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Learn More About Talal talalyassine.com.au

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Episode Running Order
Penny’s childhood in Hunters Hill and her earliest memories (00:00:51)
• Her parents’ migration to Australia and family background (00:02:09)
• Growing up with education, independence and strong parental values (00:04:57)
• School years, creativity and choosing industrial design (00:07:35)
• University, work and discovering the value of practical experience (00:15:06)
• Joining Leighton Holdings and finding her place in construction (00:21:23)
• Working in strategy, investor relations and corporate affairs (00:27:35)
• Navigating male-dominated environments and building confidence (00:32:43)
• Family, marriage and balancing motherhood with senior leadership (00:42:01)
• Leaving Leighton after 23 years and taking a career pause (00:46:51)
• Moving into board roles and building a non-executive career (00:51:04)
• Lessons on networking, sponsorship and getting onto boards (00:52:32)
• How new directors should listen, learn and understand risk (01:00:32)
• The challenges of governance, complexity and director responsibility (01:11:11)
• What comes next for Penny and reflections on career, confidence and kindness (01:17:38)
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In this episode of Uncommon Ground, Talal Yassine sits down with Arthur Sinodinos, former Chief of Staff to Prime Minister John Howard, senior minister, senator, and Australia’s former Ambassador to the United States.
Arthur reflects on his journey from a Greek migrant family in Newcastle to the centre of Australian public life, sharing insights on economic reform, political discipline, leadership, and diplomacy. He discusses the Howard years, the GST, the changing culture of politics, his battle with cancer, and what he learned representing Australia in Washington during the Trump and Biden years.
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Learn More About Talal talalyassine.com.au
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Episode Running Order
Arthur’s childhood in Newcastle and growing up in a Greek migrant family (00:00:50)
School, university and discovering economics (00:04:57)
From Treasury to John Howard’s office (00:07:16)
Working inside government and the road to Chief of Staff (00:10:50)
The GST, economic reform and the discipline of policy (00:28:28)
Lessons from politics, government and party leadership (00:47:57)
His cancer diagnosis and recovery (00:55:15)
Becoming Australia’s Ambassador to the United States (01:01:32)
Trump, Biden and representing Australia in Washington (01:03:27)
AUKUS, diplomacy and the changing strategic world (01:07:18)
Life lessons, risk-taking and what matters now (01:15:47)

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In this episode of Uncommon Ground, Talal Yassine sits down with Adam Liaw, cook, writer, broadcaster and one of Australia’s most respected voices on food and culture.
Adam reflects on his unconventional journey from a high-achieving young lawyer to winning MasterChef Australia, and why that moment didn’t change his life in the way most people expect. Instead, he shares how curiosity, storytelling and a willingness to embrace uncertainty shaped his career across television, publishing and business.
The conversation explores growing up between cultures, the influence of migration and identity, and how food became both a personal anchor and a professional platform. Adam also opens up about work, success and why he challenges the idea that hard work alone leads to fulfilment.
Subscribe to Uncommon Ground on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@talal.yassine
Links
Learn More About Talal talalyassine.com.au
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Episode Running Order
Childhood in Malaysia and migrating to Australia (00:00:41)
Family background and growing up between cultures (00:02:03)
Early schooling, acceleration and finishing school young (00:03:34)
Living independently and developing resilience as a teenager (00:07:58)
University life, law and science degrees at a young age (00:14:24)
The importance of friendships and perspective over academics (00:15:23)
Learning how to think, not just study (00:18:06)
Starting a career in law and working in high-pressure environments (00:23:39)
Moving to Japan and working in-house at Disney (00:25:32)
Learning language, culture and independence through food (00:36:53)
Discovering a passion for cooking and cultural identity (00:34:57)
Applying for MasterChef and taking an unconventional risk (00:31:28)
The reality of MasterChef and approaching it as a “puzzle” (00:38:34)
Winning MasterChef and the unexpected aftermath (00:42:48)
Finding purpose through storytelling and SBS opportunities (00:44:13)
Building a career in media, publishing and production (00:48:40)
Lessons on opportunity, failure and resilience (00:49:02)
Views on work, success and challenging the “hard work” narrative (00:55:26)
Family, fatherhood and redefining priorities (00:53:30)
The challenge of saying no and creating space for life (01:01:06)
Quickfire reflections: identity, misconceptions and personal values (01:02:10)
Advice to his younger self and what truly matters (01:08:17)
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Captain Mona Shindy is one of the most remarkable modern day Australian leaders — an engineer, trailblazer, and one of the first Muslim women to serve on an Australian warship.
Arriving in Australia as a young migrant, Mona’s journey is defined by resilience, from the loss of her father at 14, to navigating male-dominated environments, to serving in high-pressure military operations.
In this episode, Mona shares the realities of life inside the Navy, including the challenges of being one of the first women onboard warships, the complexity of serving during the Iraq War, and the personal cost of leadership in environments where trust, identity and performance are constantly tested.
She also reflects on her role as an Islamic cultural advisor, the misconceptions around faith and service, and what it truly means to lead with integrity in institutions undergoing change.
Subscribe to Uncommon Ground on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@talal.yassine
Links
Learn More About Talal talalyassine.com.au
LinkedIn linkedin.com/in/talaly
Facebook facebook.com/talal.yassine.1
Instagram instagram.com/talalyassine

Episode Running Order
Migration to Australia and early life between cultures (00:00:45)
Family background and her parents’ journey (00:02:11)
Growing up in Sydney and early influences (00:06:37)
Losing her father and stepping into responsibility early (00:10:18)
School, ambition and choosing engineering (00:17:44)
Being one of the few women in a male-dominated field (00:20:22)
Joining the Navy and early military training (00:23:14)
Life as one of the first women on a warship (00:29:20)
Proving herself in a high-pressure environment (00:32:10)
Iraq War deployment and ethical complexity (00:49:24)
Navigating identity as a Muslim in the Defence Force (00:53:29)
Marriage, family and balancing service (00:57:52)
Appointed Islamic Cultural Advisor to the Navy (01:02:04)
Internal resistance and public scrutiny (01:06:30)
The decision to wear the hijab and its impact (01:12:26)
Leadership, resilience and carrying the cultural burden (01:16:23)
Reflections on service, leadership and legacy (01:20:30+)
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