AIPA ‘Stick With It’

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This October marks National Safe Work Month, and this year's theme — Safe work is for life — is a fitting backdrop for our conversation. Work health and safety isn't only about preventing harm in the moment; it's about protecting a person's long-term health, wellbeing and future. Few careers illustrate that better than commercial aviation.
In this episode, host William Kerr sits down with retired Captain Hugh Windsor, a key member of AIPA's Welfare team, to talk about the realities of the pilot lifestyle — the one Dr Matt Thomas described in a previous episode as "not necessarily a lifestyle you choose, but one you end up doing because of the work."
Hugh reflects candidly on joining Qantas as a 23-year-old in the 1980s with no induction on how to actually live the life: when to sleep, what to eat, how to manage the social pressures of being away from home. He shares his own experience of losing his aviation medical, and how disturbed sleep and the demands of long-haul flying take a toll that can stretch across an entire career.
The conversation moves through mental health, the industrial and peer support that sits behind AIPA's welfare service, the HIMS program, New Zealand's Safe Haven model, and why reaching out early — before crisis point — is the single most important message for pilots and their families.
00:00 — Intro & meet Captain Hugh Windsor
01:39 — Joining Qantas at 23: no training for the lifestyle
04:26 — Losing his medical, sleep and the ultra-long-haul challenge
06:04 — Socialising, loneliness and the circadian balancing act
09:23 — Mental health, stigma and Australia leading on antidepressants
12:44 — AIPA welfare and "working in unison" with the employer
17:51 — HIMS explained and the return-to-work success rate
21:54 — Safe Haven and the medical as a pilot's livelihood
24:23 — Life after flying, and shifting from cure to prevention
30:37 — Support for families, and the parting message: reach out early
Fly safe and stick with it.

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October is National Safe Work Month, and this year's theme — Safe work is for life — sits at the heart of this conversation. Work health and safety isn't only about the immediate hazard; it's about the long-term impact of work on a person's health, wellbeing and future. Few people have thought harder about that in an aviation context than our guest.

Host William Kerr sits down with Associate Professor Matt Thomas — principal research fellow in human factors at CQUniversity's Appleton Institute, director of Westwood Thomas Associates, editor of Aviation Psychology and Applied Human Factors, and vice president of the Australian Aviation Psychological Association — for a wide-ranging conversation that moves from the flight deck to the layover hotel.

Matt traces his path from a PhD on online learning environments into aviation human factors, and shares candid, sometimes painful reflections on LOSA (Line Operations Safety Audit): the war stories of observers, the hard truth that the safety change process is where airlines most often fall short, and the accident that shook his faith in safety science. From there the conversation turns to fatigue — the landmark long-haul study he worked on with Qantas and AIPA — and the growing body of evidence that shift work carries serious long-term health consequences, from cancer to cardiovascular and metabolic disease.

The back half of the episode is a frank discussion of work design, psychosocial hazards and where responsibility really sits. Matt makes the case that the "lifestyle" of being a pilot isn't chosen — the work creates the lifestyle — and that the fallout too often lands on the family, the "village" and the union rather than the organisation that created the risk. It's a challenging, humane and occasionally provocative listen.

00:00 — Intro & meet Dr Matt Thomas
03:54 — LOSA, non-technical skills and observer war stories
06:51 — The Garuda Yogyakarta accident and a crisis of faith in safety science
10:50 — LOSA, Safety II and documenting what "good" looks like
19:19 — The Centre for Sleep Research and the landmark Qantas fatigue study
24:26 — Fatigue as culture: the "best compromise" between three forces
27:19 — Night work as a carcinogen and the long-term health toll
30:41 — Safe Work Month: "safe work is for life" and cancer in aircrew
36:21 — Two regulators, one gap: CASA, WHS and the FRMS
42:23 — Psychosocial hazards, Project Sunrise and the lever for change
Fly safe and stick with it.

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Chris Fleer was a fit, healthy Qantas pilot when he collapsed in his backyard mid-workout and went into sudden cardiac arrest. He was clinically dead for 11 minutes.

What kept him alive was a chain of near-impossible luck: his wife — an architect with zero medical training — started CPR she'd absorbed from watching Bondi Rescue, a neighbour who'd never done CPR leapt off his balcony to take over, and paramedics revived him on the fourth defib shock. His survival odds that day were 0.2%.

In this episode, Chris sits down to talk about the day he died and everything that came after: the four shocks that brought him back, the difference between a heart attack and a cardiac arrest, the hidden genetic heart condition no one could have caught, the defibrillator now implanted under his skin, and the five long years of uncertainty as he fought to understand what happened. He's candid about losing his aviation medical, leaning on PAN & AIPA Welfare peer support and therapy, rebuilding both his career and his outlook, and explaining why he now says he's a better person for it.

CHAPTERS
0:00  Intro
0:28  Dead for 11 minutes
01:10  The morning it happened
03:51  Waking up in hospital
04:12  His wife's life-saving CPR
08:36  "Superman" jumps the fence
12:22 The ambulance & four defib shocks
14:02 Heart attack vs cardiac arrest
15:46 A 0.2% survival rate
16:46 Life after death & the pilot mindset
20:37 Two weeks of tests & the defib implant
25:38 Dark days, peer support & therapy
29:01 His wife, the trauma & broken ribs
34:25 Losing his medical & fighting insurers
44:38 A new career in safety & no regrets

IN THIS EPISODE

- How bystander CPR and early defibrillation saved Chris's life
- Living with an implanted defibrillator
- Navigating the loss of a CASA aviation medical
- The role of peer support networks and mental health
Fly safe and stick with it.

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In this episode, we're joined by Captain Ali Al-Wahabi, a pilot and instructor with more than forty years of airline experience. Over a remarkable career, Ali has flown for five major airlines across Europe, Asia and the Middle East, thriving in the kind of multicultural environments that have shaped both his flying and his outlook on life.

Ali graduated from Oxford Air Training College in 1976 and went on to fly the Boeing 737, Boeing 747, Airbus A320 and Airbus A330. He's a type rating examiner and instructor, as well as a CRM and simulator acceptance instructor. Alongside his flying, Ali holds a degree in psychology from the Australian College of Applied Psychology in Sydney, and is the author of several books. Today, he works with Qantas as a ground instructor.

Chapters:

0:00 Welcome & meet Ali Al-Wahhabi
0:51 Growing up in 1950s Baghdad
2:05 Training as a pilot & returning to Iraq
5:04 Saddam, oil money & the "golden crew"
7:35 Meeting Saddam face to face
11:48 The Al-Wahhabi name & living under surveillance
14:26 The impossible "mission" & deciding to defect
15:03 The defection flight & its twist
19:36 Freedom in London & the family left behind
26:49 Building a career: Malta, Hong Kong & a "fake German" passport
33:10 The Gulf War & facing discrimination
40:05 Culture, communication & teaching assertiveness
47:55 Retirement, forklifts & joining Qantas
53:19 Returning to Baghdad? & closing thanks

This is a fascinating conversation and a truly rare glimpse into a life lived at the sharp end of aviation history. We hope you enjoy!
Fly safe and stick with it.

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Special bonus episode, recorded live in the legendary 747 Captain Cook Lounge at the Qantas Founders Museum in Longreach, QLD.
When Qantas took delivery of its first 747s in the 1970s, the upper deck "bump" behind the cockpit wasn't just for the cockpit crew — it housed the Captain Cook Lounge: seating for 15 passengers, a stand-up bar, and décor that should have come with a volume control.
Host Capt. Andrew Taylor sits down with Capt. Dave Thiess (ret) and Capt. Don Hill (ret) inside this very lounge to talk about the Qantas Founders Museum — the nostalgia, the pride, and the volunteers who keep its history alive — before diving deep into the origins of Qantas and the role it's played in shaping modern aviation.
Guests: Capt. Dave Thiess, Capt. Don Hill (ret)
Host: Capt. Andrew Taylor
Recorded at: Qantas Founders Museum, Longreach QLD — 747 Captain Cook Lounge
#Qantas #Aviation #747 #AviationHistory #QantasFoundersMuseum #PilotPodcast
Fly safe and stick with it.