Neurodiversity Podcast

• The Double Empathy Problem in the Classroom

  On episode 264, we’re sharing our sister podcast’s conversation about the double empathy problem. In Creating Neurodiversity-Affirming Schools, Emily Kircher-Morris and Amanda Morin explore a concept that challenges the assumption that neurodivergent individuals lack empathy, and instead highlights how misunderstandings happen between different neurotypes. They share personal stories, real-world classroom scenarios, and strategies to help educators bridge the communication gap with their neurodivergent students. TAKEAWAYS The double empathy problem—what it is and why it matters in schools. How educators can shift from assuming misbehavior to seeking understanding. The difference between cognitive empathy (perspective-taking) and affective empathy (emotional connection). Why curiosity and asking the right questions can prevent conflict and improve student-teacher relationships. Strategies for making classroom environments more emotionally safe for neurodivergent students. BACKGROUND READING The Double Empathy Problem (Damian Milton, 2012)  Neurowild by Em Hammond – Visual resources explaining neurodiversity concepts  Neurodiversity University Educator Hub: Join the Community Neurodiversity-Affirming Schools: Transforming Practices So All Students Feel Accepted and Supported - Order here The Neurodiversity Podcast is on Facebook, Instagram, BlueSky, and you’re invited to join our Facebook Group. For more information go to www.NeurodiversityPodcast.com

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• There's Much More to OCD Than You Think

  Today, Emily Kircher-Morris welcomes Natalia Aíza, a therapist and advocate, to talk about the complexities of Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder (OCD). They debunk common myths and misconceptions, and talk about what OCD actually is. It's important to understand the OCD cycle, be able to identify the various types of OCD, and understand how it often coexists with other neurodivergent conditions like ADHD and autism. They also talk about the impact of reassurance seeking, the nuances of Just Right OCD, and the challenges of school refusal. The conversation includes insights into how parents and therapists can better support individuals with OCD, and help them on the journey towards a better life. TAKEAWAYS OCD is often misunderstood, with many believing it only relates to cleanliness. The OCD cycle involves triggers, obsessions, and compulsions that reinforce fears. Moral scrupulosity and harm OCD are common types that are often overlooked. OCD is distinct from generalized anxiety. ADHD and OCD can coexist, leading to unique challenges in diagnosis and treatment. Autism can complicate the presentation of OCD, requiring specialized understanding. Reassurance seeking can inadvertently reinforce OCD behaviors. Just Right OCD reflects a perfectionism that can manifest in various aspects of life. School refusal can be a manifestation of OCD, leading to avoidance patterns. Episode featuring Eli Lebowitz Check out our Neurodiversity University courses, including Strategies for Supporting Twice-Exceptional Students. This episode was edited to add clarity to the subject of school avoidance or refusal, to indicate they aren’t exclusive to OCD. For some neurodivergent kids, it is a matter of a lack of accommodations and supports that make educational settings traumatic environments. School avoidance or refusal is a nuanced subject, and a deeper dive is planned for an episode in the near future. Natalia Aíza, LPC, is a therapist, parent trainer, and advocate dedicated to increasing awareness and improving treatment for individuals with OCD. She co-founded Kairos Wellness Collective, a therapy center specializing in OCD and Anxiety Disorders, where she works to enhance competency among mental health practitioners and support individuals on their healing journey. In addition to her clinical work, Natalia provides free psychoeducation and advocacy through her Instagram platform, @letstalk.ocd, helping to destigmatize OCD and promote evidence-based treatment. She earned her BA in Literature from Harvard University and an MA in Clinical Mental Health Counseling from Palo Alto University. BACKGROUND READING Instagram Kairos Wellness Collective The Neurodiversity Podcast is on Facebook, Instagram, BlueSky, and you’re invited to join our Facebook Group. For more information go to www.NeurodiversityPodcast.com

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• Navigating the Emotional Landscape

  Today Emily Kircher-Morris welcomes Leah Kuypers, developer of the Zones of Regulation framework, to discuss self-regulation skills. They talk about the importance of emotional awareness, the practical applications of the framework in educational settings, and how it provides a common language for expressing feelings. Leah shares insights from her experience as an occupational therapist and educator, including the impact of the framework on students' ability to communicate their emotions and navigate their environments effectively. They discuss the need to move away from labeling emotions as good or bad, and explore practical strategies for implementing self-regulation tools in educational settings. TAKEAWAYS Self-regulation challenges significantly impact students' well-being and success. The Zones of Regulation framework provides a common language for expressing feelings. All zones are valid; there are no good or bad zones. Visual supports can help neurodivergent students communicate their feelings. The framework is designed to foster emotional intelligence and self-awareness. Teaching self-regulation skills can reduce reliance on punitive measures. The framework can be adapted for various age groups and needs. Emotional intelligence can be difficult to articulate, even for older students. Co-regulation with adults can help children identify and manage their emotions. Understanding the neurobiological aspects of regulation can inform better support strategies. Check out the Strategies for Supporting Twice-Exceptional Students course, and all of the others available now in the Neurodiversity University. Leah Kuypers, MA Ed., OTR/L, is an occupational therapist, autism resource specialist, and educator, dedicated to helping individuals develop self-regulation skills. While working in public schools, she recognized the profound impact that regulation difficulties had on learners’ overall well-being and daily functioning. This led her to develop The Zones of Regulation, a systematic and practical framework designed to foster emotional and sensory regulation. Since its initial publication in 2011, The Zones of Regulation has sold over 300,000 copies worldwide and has been widely adopted in educational and therapeutic settings. In 2024, Leah launched The Zones of Regulation Digital Curriculum, which has already been implemented in 40 countries. Her team trains more than 8,000 educators and practitioners annually around the globe, equipping them with tools to support learners in developing essential self-regulation skills. BACKGROUND READING Zones of Regulation Facebook Instagram YouTube The Neurodiversity Podcast is on Facebook, Instagram, BlueSky, and you’re invited to join our Facebook Group. For more information go to www.NeurodiversityPodcast.com

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• Gestalt Language Processing

  Today Emily Kircher-Morris talks with Gestalt language processing expert Ali Battye about the nuts and bolts of Gestalt, and why it's useful and important in understanding and supporting neurodivergent communicators. They talk about the barriers faced by Gestalt language processors, the role of augmentative and alternative communication (AAC), and the need for a strengths-based approach in communication. There are some common misconceptions about Gestalt language processing, and they explain and dispel them in this conversation. TAKEAWAYS Echolalia has become a helpful part of the learning process in Gestalt. Understanding the child's intent is crucial for effective communication. AAC can support children who struggle with verbal communication. Communication should be viewed as a connection-based approach. Misinformation about Gestalt language processing is prevalent. Real-life communication is complex and multimodal. Valuing a child's unique communication style fosters growth. Research on language acquisition should include lived experiences. Be notified when the Therapist Hub opens for new members. It's a great opportunity to transform your practice into a more neurodiversity-affirming place, using tools and methods that benefit all clients. It's also a great resource for accredited CE! Ali Battye is a highly experienced speech and language therapist with 25 years of practice in the UK and Australia. She specializes in neurodiversity-affirming therapy for autistic and neurodivergent children, with a focus on supporting Gestalt Language Processing (GLP) through Augmentative and Alternative Communication (AAC). Ali is also an accomplished author, having written books on AAC and, most recently, on GLP, advocating for joyful therapy that prioritizes genuine connection. Ali’s expertise is rooted in her extensive clinical experience and commitment to creating inclusive, supportive therapeutic practices that empower neurodivergent individuals. BACKGROUND READING Instagram Ali Battye’s book

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• The Barrier-Breaking Evolution of Whole Body Regulation

  Today we're discussing the concept of whole body listening, and its evolution to whole body regulation. Elizabeth Sautter joins Emily Kircher-Morris to talk about that evolution, and what it means to neurodivergent people and those who support them. They discuss emotional regulation and co-regulation, the role of educators and parents in modeling emotional awareness, and the impact of shame on neurodivergent learners. Also, the complexities of vulnerability, and the significant difference between calling someone out, and calling them in. TAKEAWAYS The shift from whole body listening to whole body regulation is crucial. Co-regulation is foundational for emotional regulation. Adults must model emotional awareness for children. Understanding individual needs is key to effective learning. Shame can hinder the learning process for neurodivergent kids. Brene Brown's work highlights the importance of discussing vulnerability and shame. Calling in promotes understanding and change more effectively than calling out. The stages of grief can be applied to the process of unlearning harmful practices. Self-reflection is essential for educators and parents to shift their approaches. Be notified when the Therapist Hub opens for new members. It's a great opportunity to transform your practice into a more neurodiversity-affirming place, using tools and methods that benefit all clients. It's also a great resource for accredited CE! Listen to Emily's other podcast, Creating Neurodiversity-Affirming Schools, co-hosted by Amanda Morin. Elizabeth A. Sautter, MA, CCC, is a speech-language pathologist, speaker, author, and trainer, with expertise in social communication, emotional regulation, and executive functioning. She is the author of Make Social and Emotional Learning Stick! Practical activities to help your child manage emotions, navigate social situations & reduce anxiety, along with many other resources, including an online course and community for parents. Elizabeth collaborates with the Zones of Regulation team as a trainer and is a coauthor of the Zones children’s books, card decks, and games. BACKGROUND READING Elizabeth Sautter’s website Instagram Facebook

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