The Foundr Podcast with Nathan Chan

I see it every single time. Great product. Solid branding. Ads running. And yet it won't scale. Conversions are flat, the economics don't work, and the founder is convinced it's the creative or the funnel or the targeting.

It's never the ads. It's the offer.

Here's the problem: most founders spend 90% of their time perfecting the product and almost no time on the complete package around it. The framing, the bundle, the guarantee, the AOV. And without that, no amount of ad spend is going to save you.

In this episode, I break down what a deliberately engineered offer actually looks like, why getting it right is the single biggest unlock for scaling, and the real-world examples from our Foundr Operators members and the brands spending $100K-plus a day that prove it.

Here's what you'll take away:

Why conversion problems are almost always an economics and offer problem, not a product, creative, or funnel problem

How IM8 turned a supplement powder into an irresistible offer and why every element of their bundle is deliberately engineered

How Foundr Operators member Emma tripled her brand's revenue with Sisu without increasing traffic, just by rebuilding her offer

The AOV floor every e-commerce brand needs to hit before paid ads can scale profitably

What makes an offer feel risk-free: guarantees, social proof, returns policy, and friction reduction done right

Why your customer isn't buying a product. They're buying certainty, value, and the feeling that this is the obvious choice

If your ads aren't scaling and your conversion rate isn't moving, stop tweaking your creative and start here. Getting the offer right is the thing that changes the trajectory, and everything else gets easier once it clicks.

If you're loving this solo series, I'd love to hear your feedback. Email me directly at [email protected] — I read every reply. Hope you enjoy it.

WANT TO GROW YOUR BRAND WITH META ADS?
Join the Foundr Operators Waitlist → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://foundr.com/operators⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

HOW WE CAN HELP YOU SCALE YOUR BUSINESS FASTER

Learn directly from 7, 8 & 9-figure founders inside Foundr+

Start your $1 trial → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.foundr.com/startdollartrial⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

PREFER A CUSTOM ROADMAP AND 1-ON-1 COACHING?

→ Starting from scratch? Apply here → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://foundr.com/pages/coaching-start-application⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

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CONNECT WITH NATHAN CHAN

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FOLLOW FOUNDR FOR MORE BUSINESS GROWTH STRATEGIES

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Podcast → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.foundr.com/podcast⁠

A Victoria's Secret Angel and a Goldman Sachs investor built one of the
most talked-about luxury body care launches in recent memory without
raising a cent or paying a single influencer. Jasmine Tookes spent two
decades on the world's biggest runways turning down incubator deal after
incubator deal, waiting to build something real. When she finally met
Sabrina Carstensen—who spent years evaluating consumer brands at
Goldman—they launched Brunel bootstrapped, profitable, and with a
two-person team that pushed their chemists harder than any brand they'd
ever worked with.

In this interview, the co-founders of Brunel break down how they built a
luxury body care brand from scratch on a lean budget, why organic
community came before paid ads, and what it actually takes to get
suppliers and manufacturers to take a self-funded brand seriously.

What you'll learn in this interview:
• Why Jasmine turned down 15 years of incubator deals before building her own brand
• How they kept capital in reserve for collection two before collection one ever sold
• Why word of mouth and organic TikTok drove their entire early growth—no paid influencers
• Why the three-oil bundle outsold every individual product on launch day
• The packaging crisis four months before launch—and how sheer persistence solved it
• Why they stayed fully organic for six months before turning on paid ads
• How Sabrina's investor background shapes every capital decision at Brunel
• Why they didn't hire until they were ready—not desperate
• Why their chemists said no brand had ever pushed them this hard
• What Miranda Kerr's 11 years building Kora taught Jasmine about legacy brands

If you're building a beauty or lifestyle brand, trying to grow
profitably without burning cash on paid ads before you're ready, or just
want the real story behind what luxury brand building looks like on a
bootstrapped budget, this conversation will change how you think about
product standards, community, and building something that lasts beyond
the founder's name.

SAVE 50% ON OMNISEND FOR 3 MONTHS
Get 50% off your first 3 months of email and SMS marketing with Omnisend with the code FOUNDR50. Just head to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://your.omnisend.com/foundr⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ to get started.

WANT TO GROW YOUR BRAND WITH META ADS?
Join the Foundr Operators Waitlist → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://foundr.com/operators⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
HOW WE CAN HELP YOU SCALE YOUR BUSINESS FASTER
Learn directly from 7, 8 & 9-figure founders inside Foundr+
Start your $1 trial → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.foundr.com/startdollartrial⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

PREFER A CUSTOM ROADMAP AND 1-ON-1 COACHING?
→ Starting from scratch? Apply here →
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://foundr.com/pages/coaching-start-application⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
→ Already have a store? Apply here →
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://foundr.com/pages/coaching-growth-application⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

CONNECT WITH NATHAN CHAN
Instagram → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/nathanchan⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
LinkedIn → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/nathanhchan/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

CONNECT WITH BRUNEL
Instagram → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/brunel/
Website → ⁠https://brunelbeauty.com/

Jasmin's Instagram → ⁠https://www.instagram.com/jastookes/

FOLLOW FOUNDR FOR MORE BUSINESS GROWTH STRATEGIES
YouTube → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/2uyvzdt⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
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Podcast → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.foundr.com/podcast⁠

Most founders think their product is different. But if your marketing sounds like everyone else's — better ingredients, better results, better formula — your customer hears nothing. Because when everything sounds the same, nothing stands out.

Here's the problem: customers don't just buy outcomes. They buy belief that your way of getting there is different. And without a unique mechanism, you're leaving that belief on the table — and handing the sale to whoever communicates their difference more clearly.

In this episode, I break down the concept of unique mechanisms — what they are, why the fastest growing DTC brands all have one, and how to find and articulate yours even if you think you don't have one yet.

Here's what you'll take away:

What a unique mechanism actually is — and why naming the process, not just the outcome, is what makes a product feel proprietary

How IMAÉ's "90-plus clinically dosed ingredients across nine organ systems" turns a supplement into a category of one

Why Instant Hydration's Sel Gris sourcing and Pillar Performance's triple magnesium are textbook examples of mechanism done right

How WHOOP repositioned from fitness tracker to "recovery-based performance system" — and why that framing is the whole game

The four questions to ask yourself right now to uncover the unique mechanism you already have but aren't communicating

Why most founders already have something differentiated — they just can't articulate it clearly enough to make customers believe it

If your ads aren't converting the way they should, or your product feels like it's competing on price instead of value, this episode will show you exactly what's missing — and how to fix it before your next campaign.

If you're loving this solo series, I'd love to hear your feedback. Email me directly at [email protected] — I read every reply. Hope you enjoy it.

WANT TO GROW YOUR BRAND WITH META ADS?
Join the Foundr Operators Waitlist → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://foundr.com/operators⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

HOW WE CAN HELP YOU SCALE YOUR BUSINESS FASTER

Learn directly from 7, 8 & 9-figure founders inside Foundr+

Start your $1 trial → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.foundr.com/startdollartrial⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

PREFER A CUSTOM ROADMAP AND 1-ON-1 COACHING?

→ Starting from scratch? Apply here → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://foundr.com/pages/coaching-start-application⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

→ Already have a store? Apply here → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://foundr.com/pages/coaching-growth-application⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

CONNECT WITH NATHAN CHAN

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FOLLOW FOUNDR FOR MORE BUSINESS GROWTH STRATEGIES

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Podcast → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.foundr.com/podcast⁠

Paul Tran started Manscaped with $50,000, a bloody problem nobody was talking about, and a category that didn't exist. The company hit $300 million in revenue in just 36 months, eventually turned down a $1 billion SPAC deal, and has become the #3 men's grooming brand in a category dominated by companies over 100 years old—while staying profitable the entire way.

In this interview, the founder and CEO of Manscaped breaks down the exact DTC playbook that got him from 10,000 units sold out in two weeks to nine figures in annual media spend, why he waited until $50–60 million in marketing spend before entering retail, and the counterintuitive brand decisions—including turning down better-performing ads—that built one of the most recognizable men's lifestyle brands in the world.

What you'll learn in this interview:
• How Paul identified a completely unaddressed category and validated it with just 10,000 units and $5-a-day Facebook ads
• Why Manscaped had lower revenue than Paul's other two businesses at launch—and the three signals that told him it had the highest potential
• The $18,000 mistake that wiped out a third of the starting budget in one hour—and what it taught him about brand vs. performance media
• Why he deliberately waited until $50–60 million in annual media spend before entering retail—and why most brands jump in too early
• The brand values decision that cost them short-term revenue: why they turned down better-converting ads that used provocative imagery
• How 66% of first-time buyers chose a starter kit—and the bundle-testing framework behind it
• Why he walked away from a $1 billion SPAC deal in 2021—and why that decision looks like genius three years later
• The post-purchase upsell structure that turns a single transaction into a lifetime customer
• Why consumer brands should never adopt the VC "raise and burn" playbook—and how Manscaped scaled to $300M while staying profitable
• What Paul would do radically differently if he started today—and why AI changes the entire early-stage playbook

If you're building a DTC brand, trying to figure out the right time to go into retail, or looking for the real story behind how a category-defining brand gets built from scratch on a shoestring, this conversation will fundamentally change how you think about timing, positioning, and what profitable scale actually looks like.

SAVE 50% ON OMNISEND FOR 3 MONTHS
Get 50% off your first 3 months of email and SMS marketing with Omnisend with the code FOUNDR50. Just head to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://your.omnisend.com/foundr⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ to get started.

WANT TO GROW YOUR BRAND WITH META ADS?
Join the Foundr Operators Waitlist → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://foundr.com/operators⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
HOW WE CAN HELP YOU SCALE YOUR BUSINESS FASTER
Learn directly from 7, 8 & 9-figure founders inside Foundr+
Start your $1 trial → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.foundr.com/startdollartrial⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

PREFER A CUSTOM ROADMAP AND 1-ON-1 COACHING?
→ Starting from scratch? Apply here →
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://foundr.com/pages/coaching-start-application⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
→ Already have a store? Apply here →
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://foundr.com/pages/coaching-growth-application⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

CONNECT WITH NATHAN CHAN
Instagram → ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/nathanchan⁠⁠⁠⁠
LinkedIn → ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/nathanhchan/⁠⁠⁠⁠

CONNECT WITH PAUL TRAN
Instagram → ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/paultran/
LinkedIn → ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/paulhtran/
Website → https://www.manscaped.com/

FOLLOW FOUNDR FOR MORE BUSINESS GROWTH STRATEGIES
YouTube → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/2uyvzdt⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
Website → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.foundr.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
Instagram → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/foundr/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
Facebook → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.facebook.com/foundr⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
Twitter → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.twitter.com/foundr⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
LinkedIn → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/company/foundr/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
Podcast → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.foundr.com/podcast⁠

Victor Chan bought a $2,000 engraving machine off Amazon to make his girlfriend Jess a necklace — a hand-engraved star map of the exact moment they met. She thought it was the most thoughtful gift she'd ever received, and two weeks later they had a store. Two years on, By Lumine is doing $30–40K a month and Jess has quit her accounting job to go all in.

A software engineer and a Big Four accountant — both with zero e-commerce or marketing experience — they started with $100 worth of blank pendants, cardboard packaging with a sticker logo, and a lot of figuring it out on evenings and weekends. What they built is a fully customisable, hand-assembled personalised jewellery brand where no two pieces are the same, consistently hitting 10x growth year on year.

In this episode, Jess and Victor get completely honest about what the first two years actually looked like — two weeks with zero sales after launch, wasted batches from engraving errors, influencer gifting that went nowhere, and how US tariffs hit them just as they were finding their feet.

What you'll learn in this interview:

How a personal gift sparked a business idea — and the Etsy research that validated there was a real market for it

Why starting with $100 worth of blank pendants and a $50 sticker logo is a legitimate launch strategy

The early production mistakes that wasted entire batches — and the lesson on communicating with manufacturers down to the millimetre

Why two weeks of zero sales nearly broke them — and what finally turned things around

How Victor's software background became an unexpected competitive advantage — and the live preview tool that changed their conversion rate

Why Meta ads outperformed every other channel for an emotional, personalised product — and how they learned it all from scratch

The honest truth about influencer marketing: what they tried, what it cost, and why it didn't convert

How they grew 10x in a single year while both still working full time jobs

What getting hit by US tariffs mid-growth actually feels like — and how they kept going anyway

Why Jess wishes she'd started earlier — and what she'd tell any founder sitting on the fence

If you're thinking about starting something with your partner, building a brand in a saturated market, or just trying to figure out whether the grind of evenings and weekends is actually worth it — this episode will change how you think about what a real start looks like. Jess and Victor prove that the scrappiest beginnings can lead somewhere genuinely remarkable.

SAVE 50% ON OMNISEND FOR 3 MONTHS
Get 50% off your first 3 months of email and SMS marketing with Omnisend with the code FOUNDR50. Just head to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://your.omnisend.com/foundr⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ to get started.

WANT TO GROW YOUR BRAND WITH META ADS?
Join the Foundr Operators Waitlist → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://foundr.com/operators⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

HOW WE CAN HELP YOU SCALE YOUR BUSINESS FASTER
Learn directly from 7, 8 & 9-figure founders inside Foundr+
Start your $1 trial → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.foundr.com/startdollartrial⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

PREFER A CUSTOM ROADMAP AND 1-ON-1 COACHING?
→ Starting from scratch? Apply here →
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://foundr.com/pages/coaching-start-application⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
→ Already have a store? Apply here →
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://foundr.com/pages/coaching-growth-application⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

CONNECT WITH BY LUMINE
Instagram → https://www.instagram.com/bylumine_/
Website → ⁠https://bylumine.com/

FOLLOW FOUNDR FOR MORE BUSINESS GROWTH STRATEGIES
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Website → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.foundr.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
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Podcast → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.foundr.com/podcast⁠