"The Cognitive Revolution" | AI Builders, Researchers, and Live Player Analysis

In this AMA episode, Nathan gives an update on his son Ernie’s cancer treatment and how frontier AI models are helping him navigate complex medical decisions. PSA for AI builders: Interested in alignment, governance, or AI safety? Learn more about the MATS Summer 2026 Fellowship and submit your name to be notified when applications open: https://matsprogram.org/s26-tcr. He reflects on whether Claude Opus 4.5 and Claude Code amount to AGI-level coding, sharing stories of hospital vibe coding apps for his family. You’ll hear his framework for getting real value from Gemini 3, Claude, and GPT 5.2 Pro, plus his take on AI bubbles, Chinese models, chip controls, and who the true live players are in today’s AI race. Sponsors: MongoDB: Tired of database limitations and architectures that break when you scale? MongoDB is the database built for developers, by developers—ACID compliant, enterprise-ready, and fluent in AI—so you can start building faster at https://mongodb.com/build Framer: Framer is an enterprise-grade website builder that lets business teams design, launch, and optimize their.com with AI-powered wireframing, real-time collaboration, and built-in analytics. Start building for free and get 30% off a Framer Pro annual plan at https://framer.com/cognitive Tasklet: Tasklet is an AI agent that automates your work 24/7; just describe what you want in plain English and it gets the job done. Try it for free and use code COGREV for 50% off your first month at https://tasklet.ai CHAPTERS: (00:00) AMA intro format (00:22) Ernie health update (09:24) Claude 4.5 question (Part 1) (09:29) Sponsors: MongoDB | Framer (11:21) Claude 4.5 question (Part 2) (13:21) Using AI for cancer (19:48) AI value and skill (22:10) Holiday coding projects (Part 1) (22:15) Sponsor: Tasklet (23:27) Holiday coding projects (Part 2) (28:01) Claude code workflow (32:03) Is Claude 4.5 AGI (36:04) AI bubble or not (41:22) VC froth examples (46:09) Chinese models comparison (55:29) H200 exports to China (01:03:40) Google DeepMind strengths (01:11:55) OpenAI strategy outlook (01:22:51) Anthropic culture and strategy (01:36:17) XAI promise and risks (01:48:20) Meta and Microsoft (01:52:29) Part two preview (01:53:39) Outro PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Website: https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai Twitter (Podcast): https://x.com/cogrev_podcast Twitter (Nathan): https://x.com/labenz LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/nathanlabenz/ Youtube: https://youtube.com/@CognitiveRevolutionPodcast Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/de/podcast/the-cognitive-revolution-ai-builders-researchers-and/id1669813431 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6yHyok3M3BjqzR0VB5MSyk

Ryan Kidd, Co-Executive Director of MATS, shares an inside view of the AI safety field and the world’s largest AI safety research talent pipeline. PSA for AI builders: Interested in alignment, governance, or AI safety? Learn more about the MATS Summer 2026 Fellowship and submit your name to be notified when applications open: https://matsprogram.org/s26-tcr. He discusses AGI timelines, the blurred line between safety and capabilities work, and why expert disagreement remains so high. In the second half, Ryan breaks down MATS’ research archetypes, what top AI safety organizations are looking for, and how applicants can stand out with the right projects, skills, and career strategy. Sponsors: Tasklet: Tasklet is an AI agent that automates your work 24/7; just describe what you want in plain English and it gets the job done. Try it for free and use code COGREV for 50% off your first month at https://tasklet.ai Agents of Scale: Agents of Scale is a podcast from Zapier CEO Wade Foster, featuring conversations with C-suite leaders who are leading AI transformation. Subscribe to the show wherever you get your podcasts Shopify: Shopify powers millions of businesses worldwide, handling 10% of U.S. e-commerce. With hundreds of templates, AI tools for product descriptions, and seamless marketing campaign creation, it's like having a design studio and marketing team in one. Start your $1/month trial today at https://shopify.com/cognitive CHAPTERS: (00:00) About the Episode (03:50) MATS mission, AGI timelines (13:43) Evaluating current AI safety (Part 1) (13:48) Sponsor: Tasklet (14:59) Evaluating current AI safety (Part 2) (Part 1) (28:11) Sponsors: Agents of Scale | Shopify (30:58) Evaluating current AI safety (Part 2) (Part 2) (30:59) Safety research versus capabilities (40:01) Frontier labs, deployment, governance (51:51) MATS tracks and governance (01:04:11) Research archetypes and tooling (01:12:25) Labor market and careers (01:20:09) Applicant selection and preparation (01:29:33) Admissions, salaries, and compute (01:40:34) Future programs and paradigms (01:54:11) Outro PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Website: https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai Twitter (Podcast): https://x.com/cogrev_podcast Twitter (Nathan): https://x.com/labenz LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/nathanlabenz/ Youtube: https://youtube.com/@CognitiveRevolutionPodcast Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/de/podcast/the-cognitive-revolution-ai-builders-researchers-and/id1669813431 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6yHyok3M3BjqzR0VB5MSyk

This cross-post episode from the Future of Life Institute podcast features Luke Drago, co-author of The Intelligence Curse and co-founder of Workshop Labs, in conversation with Gus Docker. PSA for AI builders: Interested in alignment, governance, or AI safety? Learn more about the MATS Summer 2026 Fellowship and submit your name to be notified when applications open: https://matsprogram.org/s26-tcr. They explore whether it’s wise to build AI systems that directly compete with and potentially replace humans as economic actors, and how this could create an “Intelligence Curse” where those who control AI gain extreme power. Luke outlines societal strategies like open-source AI, company-level design principles that keep users in control of their data, and personal tactics such as N-of-1 careers and pursuing moonshot projects early. Sponsors: MATS: MATS is a fully funded 12-week research program pairing rising talent with top mentors in AI alignment, interpretability, security, and governance. Apply for the next cohort at https://matsprogram.org/s26-tcr Tasklet: Tasklet is an AI agent that automates your work 24/7; just describe what you want in plain English and it gets the job done. Try it for free and use code COGREV for 50% off your first month at https://tasklet.ai Agents of Scale: Agents of Scale is a podcast from Zapier CEO Wade Foster, featuring conversations with C-suite leaders who are leading AI transformation. Subscribe to the show wherever you get your podcasts Shopify: Shopify powers millions of businesses worldwide, handling 10% of U.S. e-commerce. With hundreds of templates, AI tools for product descriptions, and seamless marketing campaign creation, it's like having a design studio and marketing team in one. Start your $1/month trial today at https://shopify.com/cognitive CHAPTERS: (00:00) About the Episode (03:07) Defining The Intelligence Curse (09:34) Pyramid Replacement And Work (Part 1) (15:55) Sponsors: MATS | Tasklet (18:55) Pyramid Replacement And Work (Part 2) (25:29) Local Knowledge, Data Control (33:58) Dystopian Intelligence Curse Future (Part 1) (34:04) Sponsors: Agents of Scale | Shopify (36:52) Dystopian Intelligence Curse Future (Part 2) (48:07) Open, Safe AI Futures (01:02:47) Loyal Agents Versus Ads (01:14:06) Moonshots Over Safe Paths (01:17:49) Outro PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Website: https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai Twitter (Podcast): https://x.com/cogrev_podcast Twitter (Nathan): https://x.com/labenz LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/nathanlabenz/ Youtube: https://youtube.com/@CognitiveRevolutionPodcast Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/de/podcast/the-cognitive-revolution-ai-builders-researchers-and/id1669813431 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6yHyok3M3BjqzR0VB5MSyk

Emmett Shear and Séb Krier debate whether today’s AI alignment paradigm—focused on control and instruction-following—is fundamentally flawed. PSA for AI builders: Interested in alignment, governance, or AI safety? Learn more about the MATS Summer 2026 Fellowship and submit your name to be notified when applications open: https://matsprogram.org/s26-tcr. They explore what changes if advanced AIs are better understood as beings with their own values, and why current control methods could drift toward something like slavery. The conversation dives into “organic alignment,” multi-agent simulations, evolving cooperation, and the possibility of AI moral standing as systems gain memory and continual learning. Sponsors: MATS: MATS is a fully funded 12-week research program pairing rising talent with top mentors in AI alignment, interpretability, security, and governance. Apply for the next cohort at https://matsprogram.org/s26-tcr Tasklet: Tasklet is an AI agent that automates your work 24/7; just describe what you want in plain English and it gets the job done. Try it for free and use code COGREV for 50% off your first month at https://tasklet.ai Agents of Scale: Agents of Scale is a podcast from Zapier CEO Wade Foster, featuring conversations with C-suite leaders who are leading AI transformation. Subscribe to the show wherever you get your podcasts Shopify: Shopify powers millions of businesses worldwide, handling 10% of U.S. e-commerce. With hundreds of templates, AI tools for product descriptions, and seamless marketing campaign creation, it's like having a design studio and marketing team in one. Start your $1/month trial today at https://shopify.com/cognitive CHAPTERS: (00:00) About the Episode (03:44) Defining organic AI alignment (14:48) Technical vs value alignment (Part 1) (19:55) Sponsors: MATS | Tasklet (22:56) Technical vs value alignment (Part 2) (Part 1) (31:34) Sponsors: Agents of Scale | Shopify (34:21) Technical vs value alignment (Part 2) (Part 2) (34:22) Labs, tools, and beings (43:22) AI personhood and consciousness (56:53) Safe futures and Softmax (01:04:17) Chatbots, mirrors, simulations (01:10:14) Doom, futures, and OpenAI (01:17:25) Outro PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Website: https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai Twitter (Podcast): https://x.com/cogrev_podcast Twitter (Nathan): https://x.com/labenz LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/nathanlabenz/ Youtube: https://youtube.com/@CognitiveRevolutionPodcast Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/de/podcast/the-cognitive-revolution-ai-builders-researchers-and/id1669813431 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6yHyok3M3BjqzR0VB5MSyk

Kathleen Fisher and Byron Cook dive into automated reasoning and formal verification as tools for building truly secure software systems. PSA for AI builders: Interested in alignment, governance, or AI safety? Learn more about the MATS Summer 2026 Fellowship and submit your name to be notified when applications open: https://matsprogram.org/s26-tcr. They explain how formal methods can harden critical infrastructure against AI-enabled cyberattacks, and how assumptions, specifications, and proofs combine to deliver real security guarantees. The conversation explores using these techniques to train coding models, enable a “great software rewrite,” and power AWS’s new automated reasoning checks for AI agents and policy compliance. Sponsors: MATS: MATS is a fully funded 12-week research program pairing rising talent with top mentors in AI alignment, interpretability, security, and governance. Apply for the next cohort at https://matsprogram.org/s26-tcr Tasklet: Tasklet is an AI agent that automates your work 24/7; just describe what you want in plain English and it gets the job done. Try it for free and use code COGREV for 50% off your first month at https://tasklet.ai Agents of Scale: Agents of Scale is a podcast from Zapier CEO Wade Foster, featuring conversations with C-suite leaders who are leading AI transformation. Subscribe to the show wherever you get your podcasts Shopify: Shopify powers millions of businesses worldwide, handling 10% of U.S. e-commerce. With hundreds of templates, AI tools for product descriptions, and seamless marketing campaign creation, it's like having a design studio and marketing team in one. Start your $1/month trial today at https://shopify.com/cognitive CHAPTERS: (00:00) About the Episode (04:52) AI Reshapes Cybersecurity (10:16) Formal Methods Foundations (17:46) Security Properties Assumptions (Part 1) (21:27) Sponsors: MATS | Tasklet (24:27) Security Properties Assumptions (Part 2) (28:31) Helicopter Formal Verification (38:15) Proof Confidence And AWS (Part 1) (41:52) Sponsors: Agents of Scale | Shopify (44:40) Proof Confidence And AWS (Part 2) (50:33) Automated Reasoning For Policies (01:04:39) Generative AI Meets Verification (01:19:42) Securing Future AI Systems (01:31:19) Agentic Guardrails And Governance (01:40:44) Outro PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Website: https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai Twitter (Podcast): https://x.com/cogrev_podcast Twitter (Nathan): https://x.com/labenz LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/nathanlabenz/ Youtube: https://youtube.com/@CognitiveRevolutionPodcast Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/de/podcast/the-cognitive-revolution-ai-builders-researchers-and/id1669813431 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6yHyok3M3BjqzR0VB5MSyk