"The Cognitive Revolution" | AI Builders, Researchers, and Live Player Analysis

• Living Lindy: a No-BS Conversation on AI Agents with Flo Crivello

  Flo Crivello, CEO of AI agent platform Lindy, provides a candid deep dive into the current state of AI agents, cutting through hype to reveal what's actually working in production versus what remains challenging. The conversation explores practical implementation details including model selection, fine-tuning, RAG systems, tool design philosophy, and why most successful "AI agents" today are better described as intelligent workflows with human-designed structure. Flo shares insights on emerging capabilities like more open-ended agents, discusses his skepticism about extrapolating current progress trends too far into the future, and explains why scaffolding will remain critical even as we approach AGI. This technical discussion is packed with practical nuggets for AI engineers and builders working on agent systems. Sponsors: Google Gemini: Google Gemini features VEO3, a state-of-the-art AI video generation model in the Gemini app. Sign up at https://gemini.google.com Oracle Cloud Infrastructure: Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (OCI) is the next-generation cloud that delivers better performance, faster speeds, and significantly lower costs, including up to 50% less for compute, 70% for storage, and 80% for networking. Run any workload, from infrastructure to AI, in a high-availability environment and try OCI for free with zero commitment at https://oracle.com/cognitive The AGNTCY (Cisco): The AGNTCY is an open-source collective dedicated to building the Internet of Agents, enabling AI agents to communicate and collaborate seamlessly across frameworks. Join a community of engineers focused on high-quality multi-agent software and support the initiative at https://agntcy.org/?utmcampaign=fy25q4agntcyamerpaid-mediaagntcy-cognitiverevolutionpodcast&utmchannel=podcast&utmsource=podcast NetSuite by Oracle: NetSuite by Oracle is the AI-powered business management suite trusted by over 41,000 businesses, offering a unified platform for accounting, financial management, inventory, and HR. Gain total visibility and control to make quick decisions and automate everyday tasks—download the free ebook, Navigating Global Trade: Three Insights for Leaders, at https://netsuite.com/cognitive PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Website: https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai Twitter (Podcast): https://x.com/cogrev_podcast Twitter (Nathan): https://x.com/labenz LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/nathanlabenz/ Youtube: https://youtube.com/@CognitiveRevolutionPodcast Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/de/podcast/the-cognitive-revolution-ai-builders-researchers-and/id1669813431 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6yHyok3M3BjqzR0VB5MSyk

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  1:27:35
• Embryology of AI: How Training Data Shapes AI Development w/ Timaeus' Jesse Hoogland & Daniel Murfet

  Jesse Hoogland and Daniel Murfet, founders of Timaeus, introduce their mathematically rigorous approach to AI safety through "developmental interpretability" based on Singular Learning Theory. They explain how neural network loss landscapes are actually complex, jagged surfaces full of "singularities" where models can change internally without affecting external behavior—potentially masking dangerous misalignment. Using their Local Learning Coefficient measure, they've demonstrated the ability to identify critical phase changes during training in models up to 7 billion parameters, offering a complementary approach to mechanistic interpretability. This work aims to move beyond trial-and-error neural network training toward a more principled engineering discipline that could catch safety issues during training rather than after deployment. Sponsors: Oracle Cloud Infrastructure: Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (OCI) is the next-generation cloud that delivers better performance, faster speeds, and significantly lower costs, including up to 50% less for compute, 70% for storage, and 80% for networking. Run any workload, from infrastructure to AI, in a high-availability environment and try OCI for free with zero commitment at https://oracle.com/cognitive The AGNTCY (Cisco): The AGNTCY is an open-source collective dedicated to building the Internet of Agents, enabling AI agents to communicate and collaborate seamlessly across frameworks. Join a community of engineers focused on high-quality multi-agent software and support the initiative at https://agntcy.org/?utmcampaign=fy25q4agntcyamerpaid-mediaagntcy-cognitiverevolutionpodcast&utmchannel=podcast&utmsource=podcast NetSuite by Oracle: NetSuite by Oracle is the AI-powered business management suite trusted by over 41,000 businesses, offering a unified platform for accounting, financial management, inventory, and HR. Gain total visibility and control to make quick decisions and automate everyday tasks—download the free ebook, Navigating Global Trade: Three Insights for Leaders, at https://netsuite.com/cognitive PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing CHAPTERS: (00:00) About the Episode (04:44) Introduction and Background (06:17) Timaeus Origins and Philosophy (09:13) Mathematical Background and SLT (12:27) Developmental Interpretability Approach (Part 1) (16:09) Sponsors: Oracle Cloud Infrastructure | The AGNTCY (Cisco) (18:09) Developmental Interpretability Approach (Part 2) (19:24) Proto-Paradigm and SAEs (24:37) Understanding Generalization (30:15) Central Dogma Framework (Part 1) (32:13) Sponsor: NetSuite by Oracle (33:37) Central Dogma Framework (Part 2) (34:35) Loss Landscape Geometry (40:41) Degeneracies and Evidence (47:25) Structure and Data Connection (55:36) Essential Dynamics and Algorithms (01:00:53) Implicit Regularization and Complexity (01:07:19) Double Descent and Scaling (01:09:55) Big Picture Applications (01:17:17) Reward Hacking and Risks (01:25:19) Future Training Vision (01:32:01) Scaling and Next Steps (01:36:43) Outro

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  1:39:54
• Embryology of AI: How Training Data Shapes AI Development w/ Timaeus' Jesse Hoogland & Daniel Murfet

  Jesse Hoogland and Daniel Murfet, founders of Timaeus, introduce their mathematically rigorous approach to AI safety through "developmental interpretability" based on Singular Learning Theory. They explain how neural network loss landscapes are actually complex, jagged surfaces full of "singularities" where models can change internally without affecting external behavior—potentially masking dangerous misalignment. Using their Local Learning Coefficient measure, they've demonstrated the ability to identify critical phase changes during training in models up to 7 billion parameters, offering a complementary approach to mechanistic interpretability. This work aims to move beyond trial-and-error neural network training toward a more principled engineering discipline that could catch safety issues during training rather than after deployment. Sponsors: Oracle Cloud Infrastructure: Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (OCI) is the next-generation cloud that delivers better performance, faster speeds, and significantly lower costs, including up to 50% less for compute, 70% for storage, and 80% for networking. Run any workload, from infrastructure to AI, in a high-availability environment and try OCI for free with zero commitment at https://oracle.com/cognitive The AGNTCY: The AGNTCY is an open-source collective dedicated to building the Internet of Agents, enabling AI agents to communicate and collaborate seamlessly across frameworks. Join a community of engineers focused on high-quality multi-agent software and support the initiative at https://agntcy.org/?utmcampaign=fy25q4agntcyamerpaid-mediaagntcy-cognitiverevolutionpodcast&utmchannel=podcast&utmsource=podcast NetSuite by Oracle: NetSuite by Oracle is the AI-powered business management suite trusted by over 41,000 businesses, offering a unified platform for accounting, financial management, inventory, and HR. Gain total visibility and control to make quick decisions and automate everyday tasks—download the free ebook, Navigating Global Trade: Three Insights for Leaders, at https://netsuite.com/cognitive PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing CHAPTERS: (00:00) Teaser (04:44) About the Episode (09:28) Introduction and Background (11:01) Timaeus Origins and Philosophy (14:18) Mathematical Foundations and SLT (17:11) Developmental Interpretability Approach (Part 1) (20:53) Sponsors: Oracle Cloud Infrastructure | The AGNTCY (22:53) Developmental Interpretability Approach (Part 2) (24:08) Proto-Paradigm and SAEs (29:21) Generalization Theory Deep Dive (34:59) Central Dogma Framework (Part 1) (36:57) Sponsor: NetSuite by Oracle (38:21) Central Dogma Framework (Part 2) (39:19) Loss Landscape Geometry (45:25) Degeneracies and Singularities (52:09) Structure and Generalization (01:00:20) Essential Dynamics Research (01:05:04) Grokking vs Typical Learning (01:12:03) Double Descent Discussion (01:14:39) Interpretability and Alignment Applications (01:22:01) Reward Hacking and Overgeneralization (01:30:03) Future Training Vision (01:36:20) Scaling and Compute Requirements (01:38:19) Future Research Directions (01:41:27) Outro

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  1:44:39
• AI Scouting Report: AI Agents -vs- Agentic AI, from Imagine AI Live

  This episode features Nathan's talk from Imagine AI Live, where he provides business leaders with a comprehensive overview of AI agents and agentic AI systems. He covers the evolution from simple task automation to more autonomous AI systems, delivers a practical roadmap for implementing AI agents in business while maintaining quality standards, and addresses concerning developments like reward hacking and scheming in frontier AI systems. The presentation balances accessible explanations for varying AI knowledge levels with rigorous grounding in current research and real-world applications. Nathan also discusses the "Eureka moments" these systems can deliver and provides frameworks for understanding the rapidly evolving landscape of AI agent capabilities. Link to the slide deck presented by Nathan : https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1IpHitlG-6zHBd7hiWsbKpnprApVt3_2XHua3fG9n-Vw/edit?usp=sharing Sponsors: Google Gemini: Google Gemini features VEO3, a state-of-the-art AI video generation model in the Gemini app. Sign up at https://gemini.google.com Oracle Cloud Infrastructure: Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (OCI) is the next-generation cloud that delivers better performance, faster speeds, and significantly lower costs, including up to 50% less for compute, 70% for storage, and 80% for networking. Run any workload, from infrastructure to AI, in a high-availability environment and try OCI for free with zero commitment at https://oracle.com/cognitive The AGNTCY: The AGNTCY is an open-source collective dedicated to building the Internet of Agents, enabling AI agents to communicate and collaborate seamlessly across frameworks. Join a community of engineers focused on high-quality multi-agent software and support the initiative at https://agntcy.org/?utmcampaign=fy25q4agntcyamerpaid-mediaagntcy-cognitiverevolutionpodcast&utmchannel=podcast&utmsource=podcast PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing CHAPTERS: (00:00) Sponsor: Google Gemini (00:31) About the Episode (03:36) Introduction and Speaker Background (05:06) What is Intelligence? (07:06) Defining AI Agents (09:36) Structured AI Workflows (13:06) Autonomous Agent Examples (Part 1) (15:15) Sponsors: Google Gemini | Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (16:54) Autonomous Agent Examples (Part 2) (17:19) Agent Taxonomy Framework (19:49) Current AI Capabilities (22:19) Reinforcement Learning Revolution (25:49) Reward Hacking Problems (28:19) AI Safety Concerns (29:49) Business Recommendations (37:35) Sponsor: The AGNTCY

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  39:02
• The Decade of May 15-22, 2025: Google's 50X AI Growth & Transformation with Logan Kilpatrick

  Logan Kilpatrick from Google DeepMind returns for his fifth appearance to discuss Google’s transformation from "sleeping giant" to AI powerhouse, sharing insights from his year at the company as AI usage grew 50 times to 500 trillion tokens per month. He examines Google’s strengths, including superior compute infrastructure, frontier models like Gemini 2.5 Pro, viral products like NotebookLM, and the deepest AI research talent in the industry. The conversation covers whether leading AI companies will become more similar or different as easy opportunities disappear, why startups still have unique chances, and the potential impact of Google’s ultra-fast diffusion language models. Logan also shares practical advice for joining early access programs and getting noticed by industry insiders, including his personal email and an open invitation to reach out. SPONSORS: Oracle Cloud Infrastructure: Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (OCI) is the next-generation cloud that delivers better performance, faster speeds, and significantly lower costs, including up to 50% less for compute, 70% for storage, and 80% for networking. Run any workload, from infrastructure to AI, in a high-availability environment and try OCI for free with zero commitment at https://oracle.com/cognitive The AGNTCY: The AGNTCY is an open-source collective dedicated to building the Internet of Agents, enabling AI agents to communicate and collaborate seamlessly across frameworks. Join a community of engineers focused on high-quality multi-agent software and support the initiative at https://agntcy.org/?utmcampaign=fy25q4agntcyamerpaid-mediaagntcy-cognitiverevolutionpodcast&utmchannel=podcast&utmsource=podcast NetSuite by Oracle: NetSuite by Oracle is the AI-powered business management suite trusted by over 41,000 businesses, offering a unified platform for accounting, financial management, inventory, and HR. Gain total visibility and control to make quick decisions and automate everyday tasks—download the free ebook, Navigating Global Trade: Three Insights for Leaders, at https://netsuite.com/cognitive PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Website: https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai Twitter (Podcast): https://x.com/cogrev_podcast Twitter (Nathan): https://x.com/labenz LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/nathanlabenz/ Youtube: https://youtube.com/@CognitiveRevolutionPodcast Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/de/podcast/the-cognitive-revolution-ai-builders-researchers-and/id1669813431 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6yHyok3M3BjqzR0VB5MSyk

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  1:24:02

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