Office Hours with Arthur Brooks

I’ve hinted at this before, but in my new book, The Meaning of Your Life, I explore where meaning actually comes from—one place, for example, is by serving others with our time and treasure. However, you certainly won’t find it in the worldly idols we so often chase. This all brings us to today’s topic—money.
Most people assume that having more money will make them happier. The research suggests something more subtle. What matters is not how much money you have, but how you use it.
In this episode of Office Hours, I am joined by Dave Ramsey, one of the most influential voices in personal finance, whose work has helped millions of people change their relationship with money. Dave shares his own journey from early financial success to bankruptcy and back, and how his faith shapes his thinking about debt, discipline, and financial peace.
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Where to find Dave Ramsey:
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• Website: https://www.ramseysolutions.com
Where to find Arthur Brooks: 
• Website: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://arthurbrooks.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
• Newsletter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.arthurbrooks.com/newsletter⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
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• Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/arthurcbrooks/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
• Facebook: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.facebook.com/ArthurBrooks/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
• YouTube: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGuyFRjJQFGCKzfHTBvWM6A⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
• LinkedIn: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/arthur-c-brooks/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
• Email: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
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Timestamps:
(00:00) Intro
(05:14) Dave’s early experiences with entrepreneurship and money 
(07:30) How Dave’s early career success gave way to financial collapse
(10:54) Why borrowing money tends to undermine happiness
(13:34) Dave’s path back to prosperity 
(16:43) What financial peace means 
(18:07) How serving others contributes to long-term happiness
(19:45) How hope supports lasting change
(21:20) Why intentionality matters most
(23:37) Why things won’t bring you happiness 
(27:12) How the credit system’s lack of guardrails sets people up to fail
(29:02) Why credit card debt is especially damaging to well-being
(30:00) Why people make poor financial decisions 
(32:25) Why car debt is usually a poor investment
(35:16) How to get an education without taking on excessive debt
(38:40) Why mortgage debt doesn’t lower happiness when kept in check
(41:25) A framework for thinking about debt and savings 
(42:21) Why generosity is linked to greater prosperity 
(48:14) Q&A: How to stop being so stressed about money
(50:14) Q&A: How to make a savings plan for college 
(52:58) Dave’s six big principles for money and happiness
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Referenced:
• The Meaning of Your Life: Finding Purpose in an Age of Emptiness: https://www.amazon.com/Meaning-Your-Life-Finding-Emptiness/dp/0593545427
• The Happiness Scale: https://learn.arthurbrooks.com/the-happiness-scale 
• Good credit, bad credit: The differential role of the sources of debt in life satisfaction: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/joca.12388 
• Financial Peace: https://www.amazon.com/Financial-Peace-Dave-Ramsey/dp/0963571206
• What Is the Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility?: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/l/lawofdiminishingutility.asp 
• Why You’re Better Off Not Borrowing: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2024/02/debt-borrowing-happiness/677303
• How your bank balance buys happiness: The importance of “cash on hand” to life satisfaction: https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2016-17475-001
• ...References continued at: ⁠https://www.arthurbrooks.com/office-hours
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Most advice about anxiety is wrong.

“Don’t think about it.” “Let it go.” “Stop worrying.”

In this clip, I explain why that advice actually makes anxiety worse, and I teach a practical technique that does the opposite: the Anxiety Journal.

You’ll learn how to take vague, haunting anxiety and turn it into clear, structured fear by writing down your worst-case scenario, best-case scenario, and most-likely scenario, then assigning probabilities and planning responses for each. This simple act moves anxiety out of the emotional centers of your brain and into your executive, decision-making system, where it becomes manageable.

Instead of running from anxiety, you’ll learn how to focus it, quantify it, and prepare for it. The result isn’t avoidance—it’s courage, clarity, and control.
This is the same method I teach my students, use myself, and recommend to anyone who wants to stop being ruled by anxious thoughts and start directing them instead.

Website: https://arthurbrooks.com/
Pre-order My New Book: https://TheMeaningOfYourLife.com
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Email: [email protected]

If you wake up feeling uneasy or heavy before the day even starts, you’re not alone. Morning anxiety is incredibly common, and it has a biological explanation.About 30 to 45 minutes after waking, your brain releases a natural spike of cortisol, the stress hormone designed to help you get moving. For those of us who feel emotions intensely, that surge can make mornings feel turbulent. I know this feeling well, and over the years, I’ve learned how to manage it.On the topic of morning routines, I created a guide with six simple, science-backed practices that make your morning calmer and more focused. I created it in the hope that even if you're able to adopt one or two of the 6 protocols, your morning will get easier. You can get it here: https://www.arthurbrooks.com/6-protocolsIn this clip, I explain why you wake up anxious and share the science-backed routine that changed my mornings completely. You’ll learn:- How the brain’s limbic system produces both positive and negative emotions, and why you need both to stay balanced.- Why some people naturally have higher “negative emotionality,” and how to work with that temperament instead of fighting it.- What ancient wisdom calls Brahma Muhurta — “the Creator’s Hour," and why modern research supports waking before dawn.- How sleep timing, light exposure, and intentional structure can calm your nervous system before the day begins.Watch the full episode here: https://youtu.be/Ckzw9Bb3GaM?si=JoSNR5vPDvCMX29KGet my new book, 'The Happiness Files' here: https://www.amazon.com/Happiness-Files-Insights-Arthur-Brooks/dp/B0F4MFQ6VNConnect and Subscribe:Website: https://arthurbrooks.com/Newsletter: https://arthurbrooks.com/newsletterX (Twitter): https://x.com/arthurbrooksInstagram: https://instagram.com/arthurcbrooksFacebook: https://facebook.com/arthurbrooksYouTube: @drarthurbrooksLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/arthur-c-brooks/Email: [email protected]

Most of us know that we should set goals, but there is a lot of confusion about why they matter and how to choose them well.
In this episode of Office Hours, I reflect on the difference between meaning and purpose, and on how the goals we pursue quietly shape the direction of our lives. I talk about why some goals leave us feeling empty even when we achieve them, and what it means to aim our lives toward something that truly matters.
My hope is that this episode invites you to pause, think about your goals in life, and consider whether the path you are on is leading you where you want to go.
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Brought to you by:
• ⁠David Protein⁠—The most effective portable protein on the planet ⁠http://www.davidprotein.com/arthur⁠
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Where to find Arthur Brooks: 
• Website: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://arthurbrooks.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
• Newsletter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.arthurbrooks.com/newsletter⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
• X: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://x.com/arthurbrooks⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
• Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/arthurcbrooks/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
• Facebook: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.facebook.com/ArthurBrooks/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
• YouTube: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGuyFRjJQFGCKzfHTBvWM6A⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
• LinkedIn: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/arthur-c-brooks/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
• Email: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
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Timestamps:
(00:00) Intro
(05:00) The three components of meaning
(08:14) Big goals, and why most of us are not Mother Teresa
(09:55) Proxy goals, and how they can lead us to feel more purpose
(13:16) Jung’s philosophy on good goals 
(14:42) An extrinsic motivation 
(17:20) Intrinsic vs. extrinsic motivation
(19:14) Goals based in avoidance 
(21:34) Positional goals 
(24:33) Focus on love, not things
(28:15) Listen to the small voice 
(31:40) Enjoy the happy journey
(34:08) Stay flexible
(37:09) Q&A: Fasting vs. a heavy protein breakfast 
(38:17) Q&A: How to teach your children to be happier 
(39:44) Q&A: Navigating a big transition
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Referenced:
• The Meaning of Your Life: Finding Purpose in an Age of Emptiness: https://www.amazon.com/Meaning-Your-Life-Finding-Emptiness/dp/0593545427
• The Happiness Scale: https://learn.arthurbrooks.com/the-happiness-scale 
• The Three Macronutrients of Happiness, and How to Measure Yours: https://www.arthurbrooks.com/podcast/the-three-macronutrients-of-happiness-and-how-to-measure-yours 
• The why to bear any how: Goal self-concordance, meaning, and depressive and anxious symptomatology: https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2024-69173-001 
• Intrinsic and extrinsic motivation from a self-determination theory perspective: Definitions, theory, practices, and future directions: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0361476X20300254
• Effects of externally mediated rewards on intrinsic motivation: https://psycnet.apa.org/record/1971-22190-001   
• Evaluation of the Happiness Through Goal-Setting Training: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35084260 
• Compared to whom? Inequality, social comparison, and happiness in the United States: https://research.manchester.ac.uk/en/publications/compared-to-whom-inequality-social-comparison-and-happiness-in-th 
• The Confessions of St. Augustine: https://www.gutenberg.org/files/3296/3296-h/3296-h.htm 
• Monkey see, monkey do: Model behavior in early childhood: https://www.canr.msu.edu/news/monkey_see_monkey_do_model_behavior_in_early_childhood
• ...References continued at: ⁠https://www.arthurbrooks.com/office-hours⁠
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Most people don’t get hurt in relationships because they’re weak. They get hurt because they’re kind, trusting, and fall too quickly for the wrong kind of person.In this clip, I explain the Dark Triad personality traits: Narcissism, Machiavellianism, and Psychopathy, and why they’re so destructive in romantic relationships.If you’ve ever wondered why you ignored the red flags, or how to spot them next time, this is for you.If you're curious about your Dark Triad traits and tendencies, I've created a new, free Dark Triad test that asks 27 questions that test your levels of Narcissism, Machiavellianism, and Psychopathy. Take it here: https://www.arthurbrooks.com/quiz/darktriadYou’ll learn:• The 9 early warning signs of a dark triad personality.• Why some people seem incredibly charming at first — and how they weaponize empathy.• How the brain chemistry of “falling in love” makes you vulnerable to manipulation.• A psychological defense plan to recognize and protect yourself from emotional predators.Connect and Subscribe:Website: https://arthurbrooks.com/Newsletter: https://arthurbrooks.com/newsletterX (Twitter): https://x.com/arthurbrooksInstagram: https://instagram.com/arthurcbrooksFacebook: https://facebook.com/arthurbrooksYouTube: @drarthurbrooksLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/arthur-c-brooks/Email: [email protected]/Further Reading: • The Dark Triad of Personality: Narcissism, Machiavellianism, and Psychopathy: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0191886911003477 • Dark Triad Traits and Relationship Dissolution: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0191886917303720 • Scott Barry Kaufman – The Light Triad and Humanism: https://scottbarrykaufman.com/